MO vs. IL counting laws

Hola everyone, I'm not new to casinos or advantage play, but I'm very new to counting. I have the possibility of playing in IL or MO but would like very much to avoid:

a. Getting banned from a casino (there aren't that many in my market)
b. Getting banned from playing blackjack

I'm just getting started (working on training, recon of the various casinos and their rules, bankroll building (not through counting, through saving), researching various systems) and would prefer to start off with some knowledge about what they can/can't do to me in various states. It'll be a while before I try this live, but some of the sites I've found have basically said that there's nothing they can do aside from early shuffling and lowering table max. bets, but that info seems old, AND too good to be true, so I thought I'd throw it out here. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance, and hopefully I'll see you on the Green Chip board soon!

Sincerely,
SupaNewbie <= not my real name, for those of you that are wondering :)

or when you do play just flat bet. You'll never be banned.

I don't know if you are trying to be helpful or funny or what (the 'net doesn't lend itself to being able to tell these kinds of things), but what I'm really looking for is someone who is familiar with the laws in these states.

I want to count, and I know that there may be a risk of getting banned, but if there are significant differences between the two states, I can isolate my play to the more lenient state if needed.

If I could potentially get banned in both states, then i'll deal with it, but i need to know before I make that decision.

Thanks!

If your scared of getting barred you might as well either not play at all or flat bet. It's as simple as that. Worry about winning. Who cares if they bar you? It's not like your gonna do time in the big house for counting. There are plenty of places to play all around the world. You need an attitude adjustment. Think of yourself as a killer and that you are gonna slice the throats of the casinos so that the money pours out like blood from them into your pockets. If you�re scared of the enemy you have already lost bro.

But they can use counter measures such as early shuffle or reducing max. In all other states, they can barr players without having to give a reason.

you will get banned in a "whole state". One casino, yes. If there are multiple properties owned by one operator, you might get kicked out of all of those, but unless you do something _really_ bad to end up in (say) Griffin or biometric, you ought to play and "push the envelope" until you get a feel for their tolerance level. If you worry too much about backoffs, you can toss your edge away completely...

If you have not been backed off somewhere, either your betting level/spread is way under their radar/level-of-interest, or else you are not playing that strong a game...

I appreciate it.

To the others that responded:

I appreciate your taking time to respond, maybe I didn't clearly communicate my concerns.

I understand and appreciate the fact that I can be barred from casinos. I can also understand and appreciate (as an advantage player in other games) that focusing too much on heat or the possibility of getting in trouble will completely throw me off of my game. In my situation, I think that it's wise to avoid barring at the beginning of my live experience in counting.

The key point that was made here is that you can be barred for no reason whatsoever, so why subject myself (as a newbie not making much, at that) to barring, when my market is relatively small? I'm not so arrogant as to believe that I'll make enough at the beginning for it to pay for any sort of travel. And my thinking there is a possibility of getting barred is not due to the fact that I think I'll play so well as it is due to the fact that I've seen the little things that will set off a pit boss or critter, and I'd rather not fall victim to that UNTIL I'm making enough to afford to have it pay for a trip to another venue... that's all.

Like I said, I appreciate your help, and I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I look forward to talking with you more in the future!

-Supa

And my thinking there is a possibility of getting barred is not due to the fact that I think I'll play so well as it is due to the fact that I've seen the little things that will set off a pit boss or critter, and I'd rather not fall victim to that UNTIL I'm making enough to afford to have it pay for a trip to another venue... that's all.

If you are playing low stakes, you will learn little about what will set off a boss or pit critter in most casinos. The very first thing that gets their attention is the size of your bets. If they are relatively small the odds are that nothing you do will set them off.

Playing for higher stakes is a completely different thing, and once you get there, you will have learning experiences that you just won't get otherwise.

The chances of your getting banned or even backed off in Illinois are practically non-existent. The games are so horrible you'd probably be better off if they did 86 you. Save your money and go to Vegas or the Gulf Coast where you'll find playable games.

I would say build a time machine and go back to 1998 thru 2000 when Player Island and St. Charles gave away money with their double deck game. Seriously all the game are pretty bad (terrible compared to back then). You might get some good penetration at a few tables downtown or wait until a few new ones open up (whenever that maybe?). My opinion is learn to play video poker or poker. Good luck and watch those $500 loss limits in Missouri, Ill. doesn't have them.

SupaNewbie,

When I first started counting, I always worried about the PC's, dealers, and the EITS (Eye In The Sky: that is, surveillance). I wondered why they couldn't tell what I was doing... after all, it was readily apparent to me. Every time I sat down, I expected to get "The Tap", be escorted to the infamous "backroom", have my photo illegally published in the Griffin Book, and be barred for life for crushing the casinos with my massive $50 wagers.

Needless to say, my fears were completely overblown. The dealers could barely count their own hands, much less count the cards, and the PC's and EITS had much bigger fish to fry.

In fact, the only way I could have been thrown out at that stage would have been to make a complete jerk of myself at the tables. If you've spent any time playing live BJ, you know exactly the type of player I mean: loud, obnoxious, probably drunk, and abusive to the dealer, the other players, and the PC's.

My advice to you at the beginning of your career is simple: play the best game you can, and always, ALWAYS, be a gentleman (or a lady, as the case may be) at the tables. Chat amiably with your fellow players, the dealer, and the PC's, never whine about the bad cards, and especially don't blame the dealer for wiping out the table with her miracle 8-card 21 (I confess to having a bit of trouble with this one myself!). If you are pleasant at the tables, you will avoid attracting the attention of the PC's, who in turn will avoid calling the EITS for a "skills evaluation" of your play.

Of course, as stainless steel rat pointed out elsewhere in this thread, if your game is strong enough with time you'll eventually attract some unwanted attention, and the backoffs (or other "counter" measures) will come. My first one came after I'd been counting for about a year, on my second visit to a table that is a well-known "counter trap". Believe it or not, my world didn't end, nor did my BJ career... I'm still here, still playing, and still a welcome customer at most casinos.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand