level 2 count vs hi-low

I have been playing green chip blackjack mostly in Atlantic City for about 3 years using the hi-low count. I play about 1200 hours per year. I'm considering moving up to a level 2 or 3 count. Kevin Blackwood stetes in his book that serious players should view the hi-low count as white bread. There are much better choices out there. He seems to like the hi-opt 2 with an ace side count. The Blackjack strategy advisor suggusts I should be using the canfield master or omega 2 with ace side count. Both seem similar to Hi-opt 2. I know these counts would all produce better results in the single and double deck games, but since I only get to vegas 2 or 3 times per year and 75% of my play is in Atlantic city against 6 & 8 deck shoes, would these counts really increase my winnings or would I be better off sticking with the hi-low??

I have used HO2 with several sides for about 15years, and still use it for pitch games. However, as the number of decks increases, i drop some of the side counts, since they are only very valuable in single-deck. For shoes, I was only side counting aces. Several years ago, MIT team required all players to use Hi-Low, so I started switching to Hi-Low when playing shoes. There is very little difference in performance when playing shoes, so I suggest that you stick with Hi-Low unless you plan on playing more SD in the future. Some other teams also require HiLow, so if you plan on joining a team, you may want to at least keep up your abilities in HiLow. If you are going to focus more on pitch games, you should switch to HO2; it is not as difficult to learn a second count as it was to learn the first, and it is considerably better for SD. PV

In shoe games bet correlation (BC) is more important than playing efficiency(PE). Hi-Low has one of the highest BC of all the systems out there, and it's easy to use. In handhelds PE is a lot more important. Level 2 and 3 counts are better suited for pitch games.

Personally, I use Hi-Low for shoe games and AOII for pitch.

It is the defacto industry standard and for the games you play (wonging shoes in AC) it's perfect.

bp

I'm using AO2 for everything.

I agree with bigplayer
I started counting 10 years ago with Hi/Lo, after a few years i was thinking the same as yourself. I then changed to AO2 and then to APC.
Now im back using Hi/Lo and couldnt be happier
Its an easy count, you can chat to everyone without too much worry
and it still gets the money in the shoe games i play
If i was playing only single or double deck games i would look for something with a higher p.c.

T

Hi-Low is simple. It's easy to talk, sing, and count all at the same time using Hi-Low. Hi-Low has a high BC which is more important in shoe games than it is in pitch games.

AOII is a pain in the ass to use for shoe games IMO. I'd much rather have to keep up with only 4 or 8 aces instead of 24. AOII has a higher PE than Hi-Low. PE is more important than BC in pitch.

Hi-Low is also good to use if you're going to do any kind of shuffle tracking.

That's not to say that AOII won't work for shoe games. If you can do it, and are comfortable with it, then use AOII for everything.

I know of one guy on a team who uses AOII exclusively.

Basically, it all boils down to using what your most comfortable. I like the higher level count system for pitch due to the higher PE. I use Hi-Low in shoe games because I don't want to have to keep up with 24 aces, but I still want to have a high BC.

but wouldn't a bc of 98 or 99 be beter than the hi-low's 97?

You have some good comments, but you say "PE is more important than BC in pitch games". This is not true. PE is much more important in pitch than it is in shoes, but BC is still the most important factor, even in pitch.

"You have some good comments, but you say "PE is more important than BC in pitch games". This is not true. PE is much more important in pitch than it is in shoes, but BC is still the most important factor, even in pitch."

Oops. You're right. That's not what I intended. Of course BC is important in pitch. What I was aiming at was that PE is more important in pitch games than in shoe games and that BC is more important in shoe games than pitch. I just got screwed up in my typing while I was thinking.

You know, it is possible to beat some games with play variation only. One can't beat those to any great extent, but there are a few (extremely few) such games in existence. Of course you increase your winnings with bet variation.

JB

http://www.qfit.com/card-counting.htm

Need to know what it is with the ace side count please. There has to be a large difference.

has anyone had any experience using zen for dd? I hear true counting ubzII is another option which is very good for sd or dd.