does anyone have any specifics on the legality of advantage play in indian casinos? i'm guessing it may vary from tribe to tribe......how about mohegan sun and foxwoods? is it legal to card count there? what do they do under tribal law if they catch you?
thanks
Let's just say it's not illegal .. until they say it is.
I've been caught on Indian land (not these two) and been simple asked to quit playing. I know this is gonna open up a long tirade by those who feel their rights are infringed on everytime they set foot on the reservation, and that's fine, but the fact is the laws are not the same there, they can probably be changed on a whim, and you better know that before you go.
Of course, most of their business is dervived from non-Native Americans and they can't stand a lot of horrible bad publicity just like any other retail establishment -so they try to treat you as you would expect them to do.
But, I'm always on my best behaviour at an Indian place. 99.9% of time it's just what you'll expect. But that 0.01% time it's not, I imagine, will be a real bummer.
Last, and I'm not exaggerating here, when I cross the 'border' I don't speed, I don't float stop signs, and I don't squeeze the yellow lights. I make sure my car tag is up to date and my insurance card is handy. :) You think I'm kidding; I'm not. I am one good citizen on the reservation. If you are worried about explaining to the Fed's at the airport about all that cash, wait till you get to explain to the Tribal Council what you were doing with all that cash when the traffic police stopped you for going 5 over. No thanks!
So be extra nice when they catch you; and smile a lot.
They can do virtually anything they want and you have little to no recourse. It is not a level playing field. In fact, if their roof fills with water and falls and kills your loved one, you are still at their mercy as to how it will be handled. They have sovereign immunity.
They should at least be required to show a disclaimer to the public upon entering their facilities that posts the rules of their property and their sovereign immunity.
All ye who enter here, abandon all hope...
:)
If something violates federal law they will call the cops. They have tribal court but what that is exactly i don't know but don't worry about it, it's not illegal. They can't put you in jail for it anywhere in the country, if you go to the bahamas, places like that thgen you can get locked up or maybe killed but here in america no. There is really no heat at theses places just watch the payouts and play a strong game. You seem to be overly concerned about legality and barring, maybe this game is not for you. Oh yeah, don't play until the shift change because that's when they talk about you. Leave and go somewhere else.
regardless. Indian Tribal areas are still part of the United States and subject to federal law.
I'm not overly concerned about barrings, and I rarely play indian casinos (I visit Pearl River in MS once or twice a year at most, and sometimes just watch family play as the BJ games are really no good unless that "exceptional" dealer happens to be there (not a specific person, just one that doesn't cut off half the dang shoe).
However, if you have a dispute with them you will find yourself in a world of complications. They can refuse to pay you, claiming you are cheating by counting cards or something, and it is a non-trivial task to "get relief".
Native stores can bar you for any reason, including but not limited to using your brain. I've seen it many times.
> it cannot be illegal to use your brain
And this is the same defense you'd use world-wide, because in many instances being on Soveriegn Indian Territory is tantamount to being on the moon.
> Indian Tribal areas are still part of the United States and subject to federal law.
I was not aware this was a Federal issue.
Jefftrader shouldn't be afraid to play and stay on the reservation. I'm just saying I'd be on my best behaviour.
The question is whether it is illegal, not whether you can be barred from a casino. Big difference.
thanks to all for the input, i appreciate it. i've justed started advantage play (15 trips) just using the basic hi-low count, and i am very happy with the results....i love advantage play. i have read up on and am comfortable with the legal aspects of a.p. in las vegas and new jersey, but because of the sovereignity of the indian tribes and casinos, i was a little concerned.....if they view it as illegal and as an offense that you can be arrested for, then for me, its best to avoid those places. why risk that when there are plenty of casinos in states where a.p. is legal, and the only thing you risk is being barred from that property, not jail? thanks to all again for the input!
jefftrader
If a tribe attempted to arrest you and charge with a crime for merely thinking it would become a federal issue quite rapidly.
Use them to make yourself some money. If you get tossed, so be it. Go on to the next.
and if they don't allow us, American citizens on there property, then just maybe our rights have been compromised by the treaty. We then have a claim against our lovely Gail Norton, Dept of Interior and Bureau of Indian Affairs.
Isn't it discrimination to disallow a mentally impared person into a place of business? Mentally gifted or impared it's discrimination.
This has happen to me.
If you should get backed off an Indian property, whatever the reason, do NOT argue with the person backing you off whatsoever. If you say one word that he/she considers to be a "threat", they can and will have you arrested. I'm saying that if you were to look at the PC and say something as simple as "Hey, this is a bunch of s**t", the PC could use your words to get you locked up, if he/she just doesn't like you for some reason. Trust me on this, I've seen it happen before.
Best thing to do (in almost any casino situation, but especially in Indian casinos) is to just pick up your chips and leave immediately (you can come back to cash them in on a different shift, or have a friend do it for you, if you prefer).
Good luck.
Regards,
drumz1
Do they lock us up on their land or do the state tax payers pay to have us locked up in a state or county facility.
What really happens if arrested?
but they can only send you to the state police,etc. and have you arrested, they can't imprison you.
Foxwoods barred me. The usual.."You may play any game except blackjack..." etc. They froze more than 4000 comp points as well. The shift manager was nice. He told me they had me listed as an advantage player and the bean counters there were cracking down. I had won a substantial sum in the previous 2 years. The 2nd time they caught me I received a veiled threat from a different shift manager. "You were told not to play blackjack here anymore. I can't be responsible for what happens to you if you're caught playing blackjack in here again...". I can't say what would happen a third time because I was never caught a third time despite playing blackjack there numerous times with a hat after a 6 month hiatus. I've since pounded them on other AP games for substantial sums as well without a problem. I do use a different pair of glasses with a prescription optimized for short distances and have read that a change in one's prescription often throws off facial recognition software.
thanks alot. cuz i go there alot.
dont want to be catch.
what kind of action or movement would take attetion in foxwoods?
