KO vs Hilo betting question

Currently we use Hi Low as our prefered counting system, but after reading Knockout Blackjack I am looking at teaching new players KO because the success rate would be much higher. Most people who can keep perfect running count come unstuck with true count conversion.

With this in mind I did some analysis of Hi Low compared with KO. (We play 8 deck shoes played down to 1 deck).

The betting ramp as proposed in the book starts at -6, which when compared to Hi Low would minimise any action at true counts of +2 until five decks to go, This is Ok, as not much action happens before this anyway. Higher true counts above +2 are very in frequent before 5 to go. The problem is after 2.5 decks to go. At 2.5 decks to go -6 in KO is TC 0 in Hi Low Therefore past 2.5 decks to go if you followed the proposed betting ramp you would find yourself betting large amounts in negative true counts! It is quite common that we will get action at 1 deck to go. At running count of 0 in KO you would have 6 unit bet with a approx -.53% advantage. Even worse if you were still ramping from -6.

There is no discussion on this in the book, which I find amazing, or have I got it wrong?

Does anyone have any ideas or an alternative betting model?

Any comments would be much appreciated

Of course there is no discussion in the KO book about "Beware at times you'll be making large bets when you are at a disadvantage!"
No wonder, the book was wrote by Olaf Vancura...he happens to work for the casinos. The newbies swear KO is the best!! They are correct under the assumption they are having problems with better count systems or they just dont care.

KO is lame, you should stay with Hi-Lo.

Anon#7

Why does the system get endorsment from many of the "big" names of Black Jack.

This is the first time I have had a serious look at KO as a system. It seems to have some advantages. The comparisons of simulations in the book are only with 75% pen and at this it compares favorably with Hi Low. But I am sure that if the Sims were done with 85% plus pen it would not. This is a major disadvantage to the "newbie" who would not be able to tell the difference.

What I would like to know is, can this be overcome with a simple betting modification toward the end of the shoe and even perhaps at the beginning of the shoe. Maybe this would complicate the system to the point of it not being worthwhile.

I will personaly stick to Hi Low,but I am looking at the success rate of beginners. Spending time with someone only to find they simply cannot get the TC conversion down pat is frustrating. You could say that,then it is better to scrap them.

I am keen to find out how others deal with the issue of low pen and KO.

Maybe this issue has been discussed to death here, if so are there any posts archived that someone may direct me to.

Your response will be welcome.

Thank You.

The big names in blackjack have endorsed KO because it works and it is on a par with other level one systems, even in its out of the box form. There are some simple ways to tweak KO and deal with the problem of overbetting late in the shoe. There is an article of mine in the Green Chip archives that deals with that very issue. If you are a member of GC, take a look and it may help to answer your questions.

Here is a different slant on this topic.I have used both Hi-Lo, and KO, and now use KO exclusively for multi deck games.One must keep in mind how crucial penetration is in a 6 deck game, regardless of what count system you are using.I do not sit at a six deck game where the penetration is not at least 75%.Therefore, one can use the 75 figure for the running of sims.Using this figure, you will note that at no point where you are increasing your bet, would you be at a disadvantage.Where the ramp begins, you would always have an advantage.

I can personally attest to the effectiveness of a modified KO system with about 25 indices for a 6 deck game.In balanced systems, TC is always an estimate-no matter how proficient the player.In many cases, there are dramatic errors made when converting the TC from the RC.With a modified KO with indices, a slightly different betting schedule, a player can pound a 6d game!One other important play is exit strategy.I will usually stay in until 3d dealt, and if RC not at a specific number by then, I am out.I will leave earlier if the RC is drastically negative.This has a profound effect on your expectation.

In the end, a player has to use whatever system he can use effectively, and that works for him.KO, or a modified version, works well for me, and is profitable.