Is the 3rd Attack a bomb?

There was much hoopla over at RGE in anticipation of Schlesinger's third edition of Blackjack Attack being printed.

Well, now it has been printed. Don has signed something like 500 hard back copies, and Bettie posted that she shipped the first 100 on Tuesday, May 18th with the remainder to have been shipped by last Friday.

So, here it is, the following Friday. All of the books have been shipped for at least a week, many of them shipped several days earlier. RGE has been very quiet about it. As a matter of fact, their thing this week is a sale on poker books.

There have been a couple of lengthy discussions about the new edition on Greenchip by some members who have gotten their copies. The reviews are less than good.

I was planning on buying a paper back copy when it comes out, but one Greenchipper recommends not buying the third edition if you already own a copy of the second edition. I have two copies of the second edition.

Have any of you received a copy? I (and I assume others) would like to hear from you about it.

I received mine about a week ago, and there is some additional information in the book (mainly the updated SCORE chapter). I mostly got the new edition because I wanted a hardback copy thats not going to fall apart with as much abuse as I put that book through. It does have some nice features (such as a lay flat textbook style binding) and I like to collect books. So really, the hardback version was a no brainer for me. However, if you were just going to pick up the paperback, I would probably not put up the extra expense (expecially if you have the latest version of CVCX which will display the SCORE tables in the nifty new format). It is all a matter of your preference...

Hope (some) of this helps:)

D

Thanks to a computer oriented friend, I have an extremely powerful PC with gobs of features like Windows Professional, DSL, Excel, Project, and Visio. I have a good bit of blackjack software - SBA, Shuffle Trak 2000, and Casino Verite, but I don't have CVCX.

Perhaps I need to purchase CVCX since I am a firm believer in Don's SCORE. Can you tell me more about this new format?

Thanks

There are not a great many differences between the second and third editions. I bought it for my collection (it is a nice looking book), but if you are looking for differences between the second and the third, I would not bother.

HJ

I suggest that you take a closer look at your new book. You might start with the preface to the Third Edition, which I will quote in part:

"Here, then, are the major additions and improvements to be found in this third edition: first and foremost is the complete revision of the Chapter 10 charts, by Norm Wattenberger, to include optimal betting ramps, unit sizes, SCOREs, and much, much more; a light piece, "More on SCORE," appended to the SCORE chapter, as we seek ways to distinguish between the "original" concept of SCORE and the "generic" meaning the term has taken on; the complete version of the Optimal Departure study, which began in the second edition of BJA, but was completed in a subsequent issue of Blackjack Forum; four brand-new risk of ruin equations, encompassing goal-reaching and time-constraint concepts, and an enlightening testing of the formulas' accuracy, through the computer simulations of Norm Wattenberger; an entirely new Chapter 12, as a mythical blackjack team takes a "Random Walk Down the Strip," utilizing John Auston's genial software application, BJRM 2002; a three-part Appendix, courtesy of the amazing Cacarulo, with more than 100 pages (!) of precise expectation tables, basic strategy charts (the most accurate in print), and effects of rules variations on basic strategy expectations; finally, a new cover design, an enlargement of the book's format, and, for collectors, an elegant hardcover edition, which will be followed by a softcover version."

BJA2 is 346 pages. BJA3 is 505 pages, on a larger page size, with no increase in type font size. Don estimates that BJA3 is 50% new material, and I would agree.

Personally, I feel that the revised Chapter 10 charts alone are worth the cost of the book. I disagree with the argument that owning your own simulation software makes Chapter 10 superfluous. Setting up and running sims takes time. I can spend a good part of the evening simming the game at Casino A vs Casino B, or I can spend a couple of minutes with Chapter 10 and gain a pretty good understanding of which is the better game.

I also like the fact that one of my most frequently-used reference works is now in the form of a high quality hardbound book.

BTW, all pre-ordered copies of the book had been shipped as of a week ago. Due to the size and weight of the book, shipping via USPS book rate was the most cost-effective method. This method of shipping can take up to two weeks, depending on the destination.

most game types are available through CVCX and the pre-run sims. Thus, no need to spend all night running the sims unless you are comparing two games that are a little funky...

D

BJA is not a book usually recomended for beginners, and heretofore, for good reason. It's a detailed read.

But I'll submit that the new comprehensive detailed basic strategy charts alone (contained in the new appendices) make it worth every penny. You can't get a more reliable BS foundation (for SD, DD, and MD -both TD and CD) from which to begin than one calc'ed by DS and Cacarulo. And later, as they progress, the book becomes an almost endless source of rock hard solid information.

When I first began to begin, I got so tired of comparing every BS chart I saw, one against the other, and then having to determine which, if any, was correct. Now -beginners can by-pass that pointless exercise.

BTW, I'm guessing from your post that even after the vote taken by the Green Chippers as to if they would buy the book or not, you still decided not to.

The idea of ya'll sitting around pontificating as to if the third edition was worth the money or not still seems silly to me; just makes me almost laugh out loud. For some, the 'new' information may be considered marginal. For them personally, they are probably right. But at $30, the signed hard back edition was a steal. Shouldn't have taken a board full of AP'ers taking a vote to figure that one out.

At $40, it is still a bargain; especially for a beginner.

..for beginners who do not already own the book, the third edition is worth ten times its cost. I also agree that the hardcover signed and numbered edition is WELL worth $30, which is why I had my order in so early I got one in the first hundred:)

Whats in question is the additional info. If you were going to purchase the paperback later this year and already had the second (and for some people out there, the first and the second) is it really worth it? The charts you refer to are handy, it is nice to have most of what you could possibly need in a book in one book. However, the value is going to vary from person to person. Some may find much value in the added material, others wont find as much. I recomend perusing the paperback and when it comes in (or borrowing one from somebody you know) and checking for yourself. However, unless you are a collector like myself, I would definitely hold off for the paperback.

D

"Whats in question is the additional info."

... lets get real for a moment. The original question was never really about the add'l info in BJA III, but an open end invitaion to solicit negative input regarding RGE and Don Schlesinger.

How played out is this becoming? "Is The Third Attack A Bomb?" I mean, come on. By the looks of the response so far, it looks as if since the Pied Piper of Blackjack has disappeared, the fortitude of those wanting to disparage RGE (and I guess Schlesinger as well) is waning also.

But to T-Man I will give it up -your unrelenting tenacity in this crusade is admirable.

Back to the point. If a man would not spend $30 for a signed and numbered hard bound edition of BJA III which contained the updated SCORE numbers, I'm guessing he is really not interested in spending $80 for CVCX to get the same thing.

Spend time explaining it to him if you want -but he worked close with Wattenberger for some time and probably knows more about CVCX than you do.

"Whats in question is the additional info."

... lets get real for a moment. The original question was never really about the add'l info in BJA III, but an open end invitaion to solicit negative input regarding RGE and Don Schlesinger.

No SR, the question is entirely about whether the new and additional information is worth purchasing a third edition copy, especially if you already own one or more copies of the second edition. I've always said that Blackjack Attack is a must have book.

Here are some sample evidences of proof (And, I can keep going back and finding more if needed.):

BJ21.com Free Main Page
February 21, 2004
�As I said recently on another channel, you cannot go wrong with books by Arnold Snyder, Peter Griffin, Stanford Wong, and Don Schlesinger.
Don Schlesinger's Blackjack Attack is your more advanced text book. The third edition is about to come out, giving you just enough time to read some of the preparatory material listed above first.�
http://www.bj21.com/boards/free/free_board/index.cgi?read=133344

Cardcounter.com Main Message Board
February 8, 2004
�You cannot go wrong with books by authors Arnold Snyder, Stanford Wong, Peter Griffin, and Don Schlesinger.�
http://www.cardcounter.com/main.pl?read=6581

BJMath.com Beginners Math/Blackjack Page
May 16, 2004
I also recommend that you purchase Don Schlesinger's Blackjack Attack. You can either purchase the second edition, or wait a little bit and purchase the third edition which is about to come out.
�The book covers a concept called SCORE (Standard Comparison Of Risk and Expectation) which goes into great detail about evaluating the value of games with different conditions. �
http://www.bjmath.com/bin-cgi/beginner.pl?read=1820

By the way, the discussions I mentioned were about the worth of the additions in the new edition. Nobody said or would say a word to imply that every serious player should not at least have a second edition copy.

There was no vote. Please quit making things up.

I freely admit that I could not care less about a signed or numbered copy, but if it is worth it to buy the third edition, I will do so. I will also purchase CVCX without blinking if I find I need it. My SBA has performed all my needs so far.

..about your personal issues. There was a question in a public forum, and answered it as I saw it. You have chosen to display a personal fued in a public forum, which is just plain silly. If I wanted to see that I wouldn't need to come here, the corporate life has enough of that. Obviously this personal shit between the two of you has been going on a while, so Im not even going to try to get in the middle...except to say this..

You seem to have taken a negative comment as a personal attack on Don, RGE, or whatever else you were talking about, and it could have very well been that, but more then likely, it was just a negative comment on a new book. Whatever it is, try letting it go, this is the kind of stupid useless shit that you will take years off of your life....in the scheme of things none of this really matters to begin with..

D

... but it is hard to keep up with head fakes and mis-direction.

You say there was no vote by the GC'ers as to if they would buy the new BJA3 and you ask me to stop making things up. Let me direct you to a short excerpt of your post from April 4, 2004 ...

"Recently, it was polled on the Greenchip Pages if Greenchip Members would like to purchase Blackjack Attack III from BJ21. Many members committed to buying a copy despite the fact that they would be paying the $39.99 price instead of the $31.99 specially offered by RGE. They would also not receive the complimentary 3 months of Trackjack and Don's Domain by purchasing it from BJ21."

You called it a poll .. I called it a vote. Pardon me for confusing the facts.

(Again, taking a vote, sorry, a poll to decide if you want to pay 25% more for a book, not getting a signed and numbered copy, and not getting 90 days of ANYTHING for free still amuses me -but that's just me. Loyalty to this site, if thats what it was about is all fine and good, but if Mr. Wong had to pay for his book -and he no doubt did not -I am sure he would have taken the discount.)

I never implied you didn't think BJA2 was not a good investment. You protest way to much.

I simply am pointing out that, although BSS misses what I believe the intended purpose of this string was (and for good reason); an honest reading of the initial post and the language used would seem to stand on its own.

However, if you were simply just looking for a book review, then I'll stand corrected.