Info for red chip counters when they notice green or black chip counters

A rant. Lately, I've had my share of the following, and I'm getting tired of it.

I know you're excited to finally see another counter playing. I know I was then I first started. Especially one who plays for higher stakes. Please, please, please do not enter our game and start making comments about counting. If you notice that a green or black chip player is counting after you joined the table, please leave quietly. I'm not trying to be rude here. This is just common courtesy. There is no need for you to point out that you're a counter and you want us to know it. Not only does this inform the green/black chip counter but it may also inform the dealer or the Pit. This is not good. I remember one occasion when I was playing a good SD game. I had been playing quite a while and had the pit fooled and was settling in for a marathon session. I was also using a very large spread and doing quite well. A red chip counter enters the table and begins making comments on my playing and betting. First, after a cover play he says "I thought I had you figured out, guess I'm wrong". A few minutes later the dealer gets an Ace up on the first round of the deal. The guy shows me his cards and then says "We're just guessing as to what he (guy at first base) has". Then, the count just takes off on the next round. I put out my max bet and the guy comments "Well there's no sense in being obvious about it". The guy made this comment loud and clear. Please shut the fuck up asshole. You may be playing for fun, and this may be amusing to you, but some of us take this seriously and are there to make money. I stayed for a few more shuffles and finally left. I really wanted to kick that old man's ass. You have no idea what kind of style we're playing (slash and burn, or slowly milk the place), how long we've been playing at that table, or what the pit currently thinks of the way we play. The pit may think we're a total idiot until you show up and start making comments.

Please have the common courtesy to move on down the road if you join a game where another counter is already playing. Why get us both thrown out? If you happen to see that person later outside of a casino, then it MIGHT be ok to approach us. If we deny it or ignore you, just move on and don't push it. We are a paranoid bunch, afterall.

End of rant. Thanks for listening.

JB

Any counter worth his two cents would not make comments at the
table like you alluded to in your post. It is also not likely
any of those types of players are reading these pages. Like it
or not those types of players exist in the real world of BJ.
Learn to roll with the punches. I was playing in Reno a few weeks
back and hit a really hot shoe. The TC stayed at +2,+3, or +4
for about eleven hands in a row. I won 10 of them for a $600 profit.
The dealer was relived and I heard her say to the Pit Boss that I
was counting cards. Thats life. And these dealers wonder why
I NEVER TOKE.

If we deny it or ignore you, just move on and don't push it.

Well said.

I am sure I played with the same 'old man'. One of his many comments to me as I raised my bet was 'I can see you know what you're doing.' So I left. There are still enough good games around that I didn't feel like I had to tolerate that kind of exposure. I saw the guy around different casinos several times during my week there but never played at the same table with him again.

They make the same types comments to the red chip players too. And that's after they sit down at a table that I am at before them.
Seems to be a manly attitude. I have the I-95 Song going through my head at these times.

I share the same thought with you, most counters are stupid and losers. It also raised me a question:What is "SD"? What is "paranoid bunch"?

Thank you for your answer, it raised me another question: how can you count on single deck bj? As far as i know, the dealer face down the card, the face up time is only 1-2 seconds, can you count 4-5 cards in 1-2 seconds? If you can count on single deck bj, I think the player can make killing once in a while. I am expecting for your answer.

li tan,

You asked can you count 4-5 cards in 1-2 seconds?

I can, but the point is that skill is not necessary when playing a face-down game! Rather, being able to do that is much more helpful at face-up games.

In a face-down game, I count all the cards as I see them: first, the dealer's up card, then my hand, then all the hit cards, which are dealt face-up. By the time the dealer plays her hand, each hand has only two (or only one, if the player doubles down) face-down cards. The dealer flips these over one hand at a time, so I have to count only two (or one) card at a time. Furthermore, the dealer settles the bet before removing the cards, so I actually have a few seconds to glance at each hand as it is revealed in turn.

Believe me, with practice it becomes second nature in almost no time.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

SD is very easy to count. First, you see your two cards and the dealer's up cards. You see all the "hit" cards for each player, except for when they double down. And if they double down, they have to turn their original two cards face up so you see them. All that you miss are the two original cards for each player. And as the dealer pays off each player, he first turns over these two down cards to make sure that the player didn't bust, and had a point total that beat the dealer's hand.

So you end up getting to see _every_ card every time. The dealer can't possible flip over the two down cards and then drag the cards to the discard tray before you can count 'em... unless you are terribly slow in counting. The only panic time is when the dealer has a 10 up, checks his hole card and it is an ace. Everyone that doesn't already have a 21 will toss their cards in at the same time. But it is still easy to count 'em all if you practice a little.

I personally prefer to play hand-held (pitch) games (SD/DD). I find it _easier_ to count, rather than harder, because the pace is a bit slower...

"So you end up getting to see _every_ card every time. The dealer can't possible flip over the two down cards and then drag the cards to the discard tray before you can count 'em... unless you are terribly slow in counting. The only panic time is when the dealer has a 10 up, checks his hole card and it is an ace. Everyone that doesn't already have a 21 will toss their cards in at the same time. But it is still easy to count 'em all if you practice a little."

You shouldn't be playing at a crowded DD or SD table anyways. If you have good table selection skills you will not play crowded conditions and therefore won't have to worry about this in the first place! :)

JB

I play heads up whenever possible. But my point was that even with a full table, the counting part is pretty simple...

And yes, the fewer players the better. For hand-held games it is much better since your playing decisions are based on perfect count info, rather than not knowing the face-down cards of the rest of the players (excepting the one on your right of course)...

But for someone to think that you can't count count SD/DD games is a bad impression...

I agree with your 'rant' relative to counters making each other at the tables. Save it for when you're off camera. In your case, the other player may have been working for the dark side. Some casinos are more clever than we give them credit for. They will send spies into your table to mess with your head and see how you react. I've been an AP since the mid-80s and I won't say I've seen it all, because nobody ever sees it all. But I've seen a lot of it. And I got "moved off" of a table from the players side 11 years ago at the Horseshoe in a move I know was orchestrated from the pit. It wasn't the same as your situation, but it was definitely casino employees masquarading as players who triggered my interesting backoff.

I played SD bj in Sands in AC this weedend. I don't have problem in counting( it is much easier than I imagine), but I have problem in winning(finally I won $800, but I thought it is by luck), for 52 cards, only 30 cards are dealed, if there is 3-4 players in a table, it can only be played 3-4 hands. Therefore, most of the time, when the counts reach +10, the cards are out. Only in rare situations, I can only have advantage for one hands. When can I win?

li tan,

You had trouble winning at SD in AC because all the SD games in AC are crapjack... that's similar to BJ, except that naturals pay only 6:5 instead of 3:2.

The house edge on those games is 1.58% (according to CBJN), so they are worse than even the 8D games in AC, which have a house edge of 0.48%.

Save your money for a trip to a location that offers REAL SD BJ!

Dog Hand

I want to send you a Chinese proverb: One minute talk with you is more important than my 10 years study. In AC, not only they pay 6:5 for BJ, but they prohibit double after spliting as well. That's why I lose advantage. Could you tell me where I can play SD BJ? Thank you.

li tan,

You can purchase a single copy of CBJN (Current Blackjack News) for $12, or a one-year subscription (12 monthly issues) for $79. Click the "Our Catalog" link.

Currently, real SD BJ is available in Nevada, California, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington, Wisconsin, Louisiana, and Mississippi.

Dog Hand