How many hands should u play in SD game with 1 other player?

In a single deck game with 1 other player should you play 1 hand at 4 rounds each or 2 hands at 3 rounds each?
In a double deck game with 1 or more other players at the table should you spread to 2 hands at high counts or stay at 1 hand?
Thanks.

If you are playing a single deck game with rule of six, you should play one hand if there is one other player in the game playing one hand. Four rounds to two hands is superior to three rounds to three hands. For double deck, it isn't that crucial. Your biggest problem in double deck is spreading from one to two hands in high counts. That isn't a money problem, it's a cover issue. If you can afford it, I'd suggest that you always play two hands in double deck, regardless of the number of players or the count. You may choose to go to one hand in low counts if you don't wish to leave the game, but don't do it by rote. Be sparing in your use of one hand. Perhaps after a couple of losses in a row, you can get away with dropping to one hand out of frustration at losing.

deprived,

As Bootlegger correctly noted:

If you are playing a single deck game with rule of six, you should play one hand if there is one other player in the game playing one hand. Four rounds to two hands is superior to three rounds to three hands.

I thought I'd point out the reason why his statement is correct.

In SD, good penetration is crucial for a good game. What you'd like to do is to maximize the number of cards you see BEFORE placing your wager(s) for the final round of the deck: let's call this the Penultimate Penetration, or PuP, for short. (Ok... I can't resist dog-related abbreviations!)

For RO6 with one other player playing one hand, if you play one spot you'll get four rounds (4 rounds + 2 spots = 6); if you play two spots, you'll get three (3 rounds + 3 spots = 6).

Thus, if you play two spots, as you place your bets for the third (and final) round, you'll have seen a grand total of 8 hands: that's four per round (counting the dealer's hand) times two rounds. Thus, the PuP is 8 hands for 3 rounds to 3 spots.

If instead you play only one spot, then as you place your bet for the fourth (and final) round, you'll have seen a grand total of 9 hands: that's three per round (counting the dealer's hand) times three rounds. Thus, the PuP is 9 hands for 4 rounds to 2 spots.

That's the reason why Bootlegger is correct!

For homework, what would be the correct number of spots for you to play in a SD game with one other player (playing one spot) and RO7 penetration?

Dog Hand

The correct number of hands to play is 1 or 2 with one other player. Either would give you the same PuP of 12 hands seen including the dealer's: a total of 3 hands X 4 rounds or 4 hands X 3 rounds prior to the final round. Two hands would be more profitable because you would have more hands per hour at higher counts (higher NO, using the appropriate term, I believe). Two hands would be played with a max bet of .7 times the appropriate Kelly bet for one hand. One could always drop to 1 hand if the count tanks. With a decent spread (5 or 6 to 1), two hands could be played all the time (to avoid "messing up the cards" for the ploppy player, ploppy dealer, and surveillance).

If you are a Green Chip member, the following link discusses how to evaluate and chose single deck games looking at the number of players and Ro5, 6, or 7:

http://www.bj21.com/greenchip/misc_bj/index.cgi?read=47429 LVBear584 <lvbear584@cox.net> on 26 June 02, 3:16 a.m.

If I understood your post correctly, you were arguing FOR playing 2 spots when there is another player in an Ro6 game. That is, 3 rounds to 3.
Then you quote the Bear�s post which states

3 rounds to 3 spots (Ro6) -- a poor game. Your hands per hour will be greatly reduced, and you will frequently have to go directly from minimum bet on Round 2 to maximum bet on Round 3, making the bet variations severe and quite obvious.

I agree with the Bear.

Here is another GC thread which discusses SD play.
http://www.bj21.com/greenchip/misc_bj/index.cgi?read=58990

As per the bottom of Dog Hand's original post,

For homework, what would be the correct number of spots for you to play in a SD game with one other player (playing one spot) and RO7 penetration?

Based on my understanding of PuP, I was correct (it was Ro7, not Ro6). As a side note, many casinos will force you to double up when playing two spots. So, for a typical playable $25 table, not packed with ploppies splitting their 10's always or blowing smoke in your face, you would end up betting 50 and 50 for two spots with or without another player. A minimal spread would have you betting up to 200+ on each hand requiring a 20k bank for about 1/2 Kelly action. Not the easiest thing to do while experiencing a negative flux unless your play bank approaches 6 figures and more.

"Two hands would be more profitable because you would have more hands per hour at higher counts (higher NO, using the appropriate term, I believe)"

Not sure what you are driving at here. Do you mean N0? N0 is the number of hands required for accumulated expectation to equal accumulated standard deviation. This is what many consider the long run. N0 = Var / EV^2. Higher N0 is a bad thing because it means your long run is longer. Doesn't really apply here. Maybe you are thinking of something else.

One other factor in Dog Hand's question is the total number of cards seen. Both cases (two hands played or one hand played) have the same information prior to the last betting round (32.4 cards) but playing two hands lets you see 2.7 more cards (43.2 total) which is worth something in single deck games especially if you are on 3rd base using a count with a high PE and an ace side count. On the other hand, playing one spot would give you one more round to ramp up your bets which could be useful for cover.