house edge

I am a long time player (20yrs). And started serious play about a year ago. Using true count with Ace side count I can double table stake 60% of the time, and lose table stake 10% of the time. I have three rules for session times. I leave after 1.double table stake, 2.lose table stake 3.two hours of play.
I want to subscribe to the bj21 newsletter, but want to know if anyone can elaborate on house edge listings. Most single deck games (which is all I play) show house avg of over one percent. Is this restricted to basic strategy? Is there any way to calculate the edge for successful counters? Can anyone elaborate on these numbers for me.

First off, I wouldn't place too much trust on the doubling the table stake 60% of the time and losing the table stake 10% of the time that you have experienced. If you've only been playing seriously for one year, you are still way in the short run, and variance is too big of a factor as well as what your table stake is compared to table limits and other factors.

Second, there is no good reason for your rules of the leaving after doubling or losing your table stake. The cards aren't going to know that you left and came back. I would definitely leave after two hours, though. Probably sooner so as to not get noticed. Fatique, suspicion from the pit, and other relevant factors are reasons for leaving.

I don't know where you are getting your house edge listings, but they are usually written against basic strategy play. Higher house edge in single deck games are usually due to 6:5 blackjack payout games, which should never be played.

Determining the advantage player's edge is complex, depending on the penetration and rules of the game, the count and betting ramp the player is using, and many other factors. Purchasing CVCX game evaluation and simulation software is your best tool for finding your edge.

I am a long time player (20yrs). And started serious play about a year ago. Using true count with Ace side count I can double table stake 60% of the time, and lose table stake 10% of the time. I have three rules for session times. I leave after 1.double table stake, 2.lose table stake 3.two hours of play.

Other than maybe for cover reason, stop-loss and stop-win strategies serve only to limit your time at the tables.

expected value = win rate * hours played

where win rate = EV / hour. If you arbitrarily limit the number of hours played, you expected value will suffer.

I want to subscribe to the bj21 newsletter, but want to know if anyone can elaborate on house edge listings. Most single deck games (which is all I play) show house avg of over one percent. Is this restricted to basic strategy? Is there any way to calculate the edge for successful counters? Can anyone elaborate on these numbers for me.

I think you mean CBJN (the bj21 newsletter is available for free to anyone who gives them their email).

Most single deck games pay 6:5 for a blackjack, instead of the customary 3:2. Although it is possible to beat this with good penetration and a very large bet spread, it is so much easier to attack the double and six deck games.

OK. So I understand the dis-like of my routine, and while I appreciate the input, THIS IS WHAT WORKS FOR ME...My table stakes are 20x table minimum. And I only play in cities where there are multiple casinos. I used to play for hours at one table but drew too much heat. (I figured that when pit bosses kept offering me jobs, it meant I was too obvious)So back to the original question. Are these advantage numbers simply because of the bj pay rates or do the single decks historically have a higher house advantage. And is this advantage applicable to a competent counter. I like them because if the count is bad we get a fresh start every two or three hands. Of course this only works if you are playing first base, and you can adjust play as the count changes.

Cutting the BJ payoff from 3:2 to 6:5 adds 1.38% to the house advantage. Most 6/5 Single Deck games have a house advantage of 1.45%. This means that the same game with a 3/2 payoff on blackjack would only have a 0.07% house advantage against a basic strategy player.

You can't beat 6/5 single deck games. Casinos don't deal deep enough or won't allow you to blast away with the required massive spread for more than a few shuffles. The off the top house advantage is just too big. Even if you manage to get an edge it will be too small for it to be really meaningful unless you're getting big comps and coupons and that is your goal.

Generally single deck is better than any multiple deck game. Casinos have used this general rule of thumb that most players are aware of to the players detriment. They've tricked uninformed players with just a little knowledge about the game into thinking they're getting a good deal and that the 6/5 payoff isn't all that big a deal. It is.

The only people seriously pounding 6/5 single deck are advantage players using advanced non-counting techniques. (LVHCM)

I used to play for hours at one table but drew too much heat.

No-one is complaining about limiting your play to defer heat. The complaints are about using arbitrary stop-loss and stop-win strategies. Lose these.

Are these advantage numbers simply because of the bj pay rates or do the single decks historically have a higher house advantage. And is this advantage applicable to a competent counter.

One of the biggest advantage counter normally gets is from putting more money on the table when the probability of blackjacks are increased (more aces and high cards remaining). With a 6:5 payout, this advantage is severely diminished. Since you are already starting with a 1.4%+ disadvantage, it is extremely difficult to overcome this. For your sake, give up playing these games.

Boone, I don't want to insult you and that is not my intent, but if you have been playing single deck for the last year in locales outside of Northern Nevada, chances are you've been playing the game that only pays 6:5 on a natural. So, unless you are using advanced non-counting techniques as bigplayer mentioned, your play has not been "serious." It appears as if you don't understand how devastating this rule is. That's a pretty basic thing. I strongly suggest that you spend some time studying the game and in the meantime, if you still want to play, do it on the double or six deck games available to you.

It may be that you have learned counting from older books that were written when there was no such thing as 6:5 blackjack. It was taken for granted that the standard for all games was a 3:2 payoff. You may want to take a look at some more recent texts.

No-one is complaining about limiting your play to defer heat. The complaints are about using arbitrary stop-loss and stop-win strategies. Lose these.

You mention getting rid of these strategies. I'm just now starting to get into serious BJ play (in fact, ordered "Professional Blackjack" and "Blackjack Blueprint" today), so this may be something I come across in the future.

I too, typically play until I've either doubled or tripled my bankroll, or until I've gone bust. What's a good alternative to this?

I too, typically play until I've either doubled or tripled my bankroll, or until I've gone bust. What's a good alternative to this?

Just keep playing.

If you have the advantage, the more you play, the more moeny you expect to win.

EV = hours times EV per hour

Knowing this, why would limit your playing time?

Many players feel that because they've just had a big winning streak, they are "due" for a losing streak. In fact, if you have the advantage, you are more likely to continue winning. In any case, why should you expect anything to be different when you eventually resume play?

There is also the psychological effect of wanting to record a winning session. From a mathematical standpoint, this is meaningless.

Good times to stop:
- You're out of money (obvious).
- You've been in the casino too long, regardless of whether you are winning or losing (less of an issue if you're a low limit player). Just go on to another casino.
- You're tired (reduce mistakes).
- You have someone waiting for you in your room (!).

will create undue heat for you far into the future because a pitboss will look up your play and see most of your sessions are winners and look on that unfavorably. Even if you have mostly wins with a few big losses it will not look good for you.

If you're going to "lock" in anything you want to lock in losses...even small ones. A bunch of "wins" from the casino standpoint will make the pit feel comfortable about your play and less likely to call the eye for an evaluation. If you lose and want to play to dig out stop before you complete the task and let the casino book the win against you.

"So, unless you are using advanced non-counting techniques as bigplayer mentioned, your play has not been "serious.""

Where can I find out more about these advanced techniques?

JEEZ.... I ask one simple question and I get torn apart for the way you folks think I play. But I do want to thank the two that actually answered the question. Please no more response about how I'm not serious or doing it wrong. Fact is I am now debt free and doing very well for myself.

You didn't get torn apart. Your basic questions were answered. You also got some advice about the games you are choosing to play. Imagine someone is standing on the edge of a precarious cliff and the ground is slipping out from under him. He seems oblivious to that fact and asks some people standing nearby how far it is to the bottom of the cliff. One person tells him the distance to the bottom while another person warns him that the ground is about to give way and he is likely to fall. Who has done him the bigger favor?

The answer to the cliff question, is the one who answered the question. Now he has the info needed to tell him how much time he has to pull the rip cord and deploy his parachute. Therefore enhancing the experiance that he had already planned. If he had to wait for the answer while someone pointed out he was on a crumbling cliff, he may not make it. You gotta have a little faith in others, if you don't, then you may miss out on a very enlightning experiance. Open your mind.

You said in your original post that you use the true count with an ace side count. You talked about a money managment plan that you have. You said nothing about other more advanced methods like hole carding. From where this observer stands, you aren't wearing a parachute that can sustain you in a 6:5 game. Open your mind to valid criticism and helpful advice. Or, you can go over the cliff.

Boone has indicated that he only wants to hear what he wants to hear. Let it be. You know that you are not responsible.