What is the highest maximum bet that you have seen in Las Vegas? $2,000? Which casinos? Bellagio? Paris? Venetian? Mirage? What is the highest maximum bet that you have seen outside of Las Vegas? Which casinos? Thank you in advance.
Mirage, Caesars, MGM Grand, and Bellagio all have posted $10,000 maxes. I've seen players betting $50,000 in Caesars Baccarat room and have heard that all of the above take action of up to 3x$50,000 from known customers with strong credit lines with advance arrangement.
I haven't been around all that much, but I was impressed to see
an Asian woman playing alone at a $1,000 MINIMUM table at Bellagio.
She clearly wanted the high minimum, as she changed tables once and
they raised the min for her. They didn't have a rope around the table
but the "$1,000 min" sign served as a sort of virtual rope.
She was playing fast too, probably more
that 200 hands per hr. The odd thing though was that as far as I
could tell she was flat betting though with good basic strategy.
I've often thought about approaching a high limit player like was mentioned by Pig Barber. Let them know I'm a counter and see if they would like to team up with me. I teach them how to play a 1 - 5 bet spread while I'm doing the counting. Then later I get a commission percentage after they have a session win. I have nothing much to lose the way I see it. The table min would have to be no more than $25 for me unless I could back-count and give signals.
Has anyone ever tried this? Comments encouraged.
Then later I get a commission percentage after they have a session win.
So in the case of a session loss the sucker would absorb the entire loss? Great deal for you, a ripoff for him/her.
The high-rolling ploppy may be friendly with casino personnel, and may expose you as either a skilled player or a scamster, whether or not he/she takes you up on your sucker offer.
I have nothing much to lose the way I see it.
You may well lose a casino to play in, and make your way into databases of "undesirables" for trying to scam a high-roller.
The Bear is right. If the ploppy looses, he/she will probably tell the Pit/dealer "This guy said he is a counter and I'm loosing my shirt listening to him"
In a short session, there is virtually no difference between an AP and a ploppy. A ploppy could win/loose big just like an AP. Also, how do you signal her to play her hand properly, BS and some deviations.
It's tough, even with my wife, It took me 3 years to convince her!
My table image is of just another happy gambler that is rooting for my neighbors to win. When others at the table starts referring to me as the "expert", or the "big winner", I know it is past time to move on. The most forward I've been is offering to buy the difference for anyone doubling for less, and I've also offered up my side bet spot for other players to use, since I'm so "unlucky". I'd never initiate a partnership like you've described, but I have had people want to partner with me. Once, I was in Tunica playing a single deck game that became crowded. The girl sitting next to me didn't like the number of rounds being reduced, so she asked to combine her bet with mine. We went through a few shuffles and had a good run, but I was uncomfortable, and noticed the dealer was paying close attention to our partnership. I hated to walk away from a winning session, but the potential for disaster was just too high.
The other partnership instance involved another girl, this one not so sharp a player. I was winning and she was losing, and down to her last red chip at a ten dollar table. She asked if she could play her last chip on my bet, and we had a run that lasted for about half an hour. Again, I didn't like the additional scrutiny of my game and had to make an early exit.
There was one other partnership, one I skipped. Three guys, using the wisdom that comes with liquor, suddenly decided to pool their bets on a single betting square and play together. They had a decent run, and were cheering like a Craps table. Later, a few dealer blackjacks put the kibosh on the cabal.
Some of this on-the-fly partnering can be fun, but you have got to keep it brief.
Sentry
I was thinking really only in terms of something long term. A friendship and a business relationship would first have to be established. The big player would have to be educated and have to understand fully the risk factor.
LV you said: So in the case of a session loss the sucker would absorb the entire loss? Great deal for you, a ripoff for him/her.
I don't agree that the person is a sucker if I'm the one running the show. Furthermore, given I would be totally up front with the BP. He/she would first have to understand accept the risk, slim margin of advantage and understand the term negative variance. It would not be a "rip-off" even if the BP lost because we would first establish the ground rules of the business arrangement.
I can't see any safe way of creating this type of partnership in one day. It takes time and effort to create a long-term successful relationship.
I'm just thinking out loud her folks. I know it's difficult and it can also be risky if not done correctly. It's hard for me to believe that nobody else even considers this a possibility to add to the arsenal of advantage play.
2 person AP team. When you put it that way it is a little different. Really though...once you establish the rules and trust the guy may as bankroll you. Why mess with sending signals when you can make the bets? Also, you will be very hard pressed to find a high-rolling non-AP that frequents casinos that has the capability to understand "long-term". There might be one on the planet but where to find him/her? If they had the capability, they wouldn't be in the casino throwing their money away. These people are not in the casino for profit. They are in there for fun or a gambling addiction. AP takes all the "fun" out of gambling.
I know that you are talking about a long-term partnership, but I have to share this story which is at least semi-related. I was in a small local (for me) casino where I have been barred from BJ. While waiting for a seat at the $3/$6 Hold Em game, I walked over to the DD table. A middle aged guy in a business suit had a large stack of black chips in front of him and was playing table max ($100) on anywhere from 1 to 3 hands. There were two young kids (early 20's) standing next to him giving him advice on the number of hands he should play and how he should play his hands. The advice was working (at least temporarily) and the guy gave the kids a black chip each after 3 different hands during the time that I was watching (about an hour).
The other interesting thing is that the advice was generally basic strategy, but the index plays were almost perfectly wrong. For example, they told him to double 9 v 2 when the TC was -3, but then told him not to double 9 v 4 when the TC was +2. The hit/stand decisions on player 12-16 were similar, but only on the close plays. It was almost like they had correctly memorized a Hi-lo index chart, but then managed to reverse all of the signs. The advice on number of hands also seemed to follow a pattern of increasing the number of hands in negative counts and decreasing in positive counts. This place is notoriously sweaty and is known for being quick to bar counters, but the PC's were not giving this table much attention, especially considering the amount of money the guy was betting. Of course, any analysis of his play would show that he was not playing at an advantage.
... and the guy gave the kids a black chip each after 3 different hands during the time that I was watching (about an hour).
Amazing.
Those people betting $1000+ per hand are generally betting a smaller portion of their net worth than those at $5 tables. You have absolutely nothing to offer them. They enjoy playing. That's why they are there. Advantage play at this level would not be tolerated long and the potential returns, if it were, would not excite your prospective investor. There are lots of people who finance professional gamblers (I'm one of them). But they are not ploppy millionaires. They are people who understand advantage play, the risks, the variance, and can make judgements about the abilities of those who are being financed.
A rich guy did approach me many years ago. He knew I was a counter. His idea was that he would sit there and play for high stakes as he usually does and I would stand behind the table and tell him how to play his hand. I turned the offer down as it was obvious he had no idea what card counting was about.
I don't even think he was drunk (but he was drinking). He was winning despite the bad advice and was up about $2-$3K. It was an amazing sight. I didn't have the heart to stick around and watch him lose it all while his newfound "friends" deserted him.
at Londo, 7 boxes.
from newspaper that Kerry Packer played USD 250,000 six boxes.
