Hi-Lo Betting efficiency.

Can anyone tell me what the betting efficiency is for Hi-Lo with an ace sidecount? Thanks!

HiLo's betting efficiency is not improved with an Ace sidecount. You could improve more by simply counting 2's and 1/2 and 7's as 1/2.

bp

The ace side-count is used to enhance playing efficiency, since hi-lo is ace-reckoned already and figures the ace value into the normal count which helps on betting accuracy. You do the ace side-count and "back out" the aces left to improve playing efficiency since an ace is not a "big card" in cases such as doubling on an 11, and it won't break the dealer, period.

Interesting- I can't see how betting efficiency is'nt improved upon when you know the remaining cards may be ace rich, regardless of if the count system is ace reckoned or not.

So, theoretically, if I am playing a one deck game with half cards remaining and zero aces have been dealt, (assuming a positive TC) my betting efficiency is'nt improved by betting additional units than normal because there is a higher probability than normal I will receive a blackjack?

I guess I may be missing something.. Or maybe the extra effort would not be worth the marginal gain. I notice the replies are from respected BJ21 members and thank you for your time.. Matt.

BP is right. Adding an Ace side count ot High Low is going to reduce betting efficiency. This is especially true n H17 games. In H187, the Ace is already properly values in High-Low. Adding more weight to the Ace would lower the betting correlation. You asked about playing a one deck game with half cards remaining and zero aces have been dealt �

The great majority of SD games are H17, and so employing your Ace side count here will hurt you.

In S17 games, the Ace is slightly undervalued in High Low. I think we looked at this once on Green Chip, and concluded that the factor was about 0.25. (I think the great Cacarulo was part of this discussion). This is to say that if you were side=counting Ace, the optimal tag for betting would be about 0.25, bring the total weight up to 1.25.

So if your in a S17 shoe game and yu know that there are 4 extra aces in the pack, you could raise your running count by 1 point. Raising it more than 2 points would cause you to over-bet.

While the playing efficiency is unaffected in HiLo, the insurance efficiency is enhanced by counting aces. For instance, If you knew you had an excess number of aces in the deck, you may decline insurance even though you had the proper index number. Alternatively, if the deck was ace poor you might want to insure even if you were a couple of points below the index number.

PE will be helped by an ace side-count. As will IC.

I was actually lumping PE and IC into one basket here since the ace side-count would improve both a bit. Betting is on the other end of the stick and HiLo already counts Aces. One could, I suppose, further refine the betting accuracy by the side-count, but the gain, if any, would be very small since hi-lo already has a very good BC as is...

Probably the biggest danger is that you could improve things a bit with the ace side-count, but you could also screw things up badly if the side-count produces excessive errors, such as when the side count and running count are about the same.

All I can add is that I've looked at the issue, and have played around with it some with some test simulations, but I don't use it and am quite happy with the complexities I already have to deal with using Hi-Lo. :) I'm afraid that with a side-count, I'd be barred too frequently because of the give-away duct-tape wrapped around my head to keep it from exploding during a game.

Thanks for all the input.. I guess that the affect of extra aces helping the dealer make more hands would offset, or even reduce an ace rich pack from being advantageous.. Thanks to all!

You also decrease your chances of successful doubles on 10s and 11s.

On my last trip I met a player who used a side count of aces and pecularly enough he missed out on many advantage situations.Sometimes he would hit like a mad man (not only for camouflage reasons!) even 16 versus 5.
After the session he explained me, that he didn't like to attack when the deck was ace-rich because the dealer would hardly ever bust.
I couldn't convince him that his theory of "disturbing aces" was bull shit.
Sometimes I'm amazed how many gifted card counters cannot really be considered as advantage players.

Francis Salmon