general question about backoffs....

Hello everyone, first time poster so please take it easy on me. I've recently been "studying" the beginner counting systems and am doing so in an attempt to strengthen my game. I currently play "alot" of bj but use a progression system that works quite nicely for me. However, I am always paranoid that I am going to be backed off or banned. It's NEVER happened yet and I am wondering why, is it because it's OBVIOUS I'm not counting and simply playing progression?

Have any of you ever seen or heard of progression players being backed off?

As for my "act", I always drink a few beers, NEVER watch the cards, making it obvious that I am NOT counting. Should I fear a back off? From what I've read about progression systems, everyone expects them to lose. Quite the contrary, I rarely lose, rarely. I'm not greedy, never take the casino for more than 50X the table minimum (ie, $5 table I shoot for a $250 quick profit then walk away).

Thanks for any input and may I add, I love the zeal you all seem to have for the game and I respect your skills tremendously. I suppose I don't count because it is quite an art, not just a skill.

Cheers,
stockman

Top of page--Progressions do not give you an edge. I'll be kind at leave it at that (others won't). If the casino identifies you as a progression player, you won't need to worry about back-offs...and you also don't need to worry about drinking beer as an act. But then again...maybe you just like drinking and gambling.

thanks for the only reply. It seems as though many have read and NONE have replied.
Yes, I enjoy drinking beer and gambling...both in moderation. I make no pretense that I'm somehow playing one million hands hoping for a .005% edge, or whatever.

Obviously card counting works or the casinos wouldn't stop card counters. The fact that they kick out card counters, and even look for card counting, speaks for itself. It reinforces that card counting actually works.

If you're saying that progression DOESN'T work and that casinos will actually ENJOY having me play....great. That's all I was asking. I have read the section on progression betting presented on this site, that is not how I play. Perhaps I should write a book, my system is drastically different than any system I've seen and it works.

I go to vegas 2 or 3 times per month and my entire trip is paid for each time. I mostly play at the Wynn, love their spreads. I play $25 tables usually but prefer the $100 tables. I eat at Daniel Boulud where the filet is to die for, and generally spend the entire weekend in the Wynn.

So, thanks for the only reply and I shall leave all you "serious" card counters to your statistical methods. I will say, you seem to be a strange bunch but I respect and enjoy your cynicism. Good luck to all of you.

My advice: Make a ton of money in your "regular" life and then play openly and freely with whatever system you prefer. I have found that now that I don't need the money, I seem to win all the time.

Cheers,
Mark

You seem to think you have found a magic progression and most people here will not kill their time trying to convince you otherwise. Just let you play your way till the house edge takes you out.
Some progressions may be better than others but no progression gives you a method of overcoming a house advantage that is built into the game. So if you are winning for now, great but eventually, if you play long enough, you must lose to the math built into the game.

In the meantime at places like Wynn they will never back you off and if you play large enough, they will comp you very well. There must be a reason why counters get backed off, while progression players get comped.

ihate17

Fair enough, point taken. What about the joy of gambling? The joy and the thrill of taking the risk (risk you can only afford to lose). I suppose that is the joy that I find in blackjack.

I have to remind myself that the majority of you are doing this for a living? From that standpoint, I can understand your desire to find the "system" that mathmatically "beats" the house in the long run. Sounds very boring to me but to each their own. I do however, feel as though if you and I were set loose in the same casino, with the same bankroll and played the same number of hands...I bet I come out WAAAAAYYYY ahead of you.

Cheers.

Wasn't that Don Quixote's wager too?

Uh, nice try Frasier. Here's the quote:

"'I'll wager,' said Don Quixote, 'that at this moment while you are going on like this at pleasure, that you don't feel a bit of pain anywhere.'"

Hardly see the comparison. Stick to mathmatics slick, eeking out that .000005% edge.

LAU.

You went from a $5 player to $100 player pretty quickly. So now you win $5000 almost every time you play, get great comps and then leave. I'm the only moron to take your bait because I'm a nice guy. I am the first to admit that counting cards is not exciting (not hard either) but I find the winning fun. Boring winning is better than fun losing in my book. I would venture to say that not many people on this site (and even in the world) play BJ as a full time profession, but for me it's fun to go on vacation, take a day trip or a weekend, have my expenses paid and at least have a chance of winning (and not losing more than I can afford). You sound like many a progessionist from the past who comes around just to stir things up here. Only you know if you are telling the truth but if your system works, more power to you. You'll have a hard time convincing too many people here that your system does work. As others have written, there is a reason that casinos care about card counters but welcome progression players. Just out of curiousity, what is your loss limit on those rare occasions that you do lose? Or do you always win $5000 and walk?

Hello and trust me when I say there is no "baiting" going on here. As for the $5 reference, re-read the post. It says ie. $5 I would take them for $250 and move on. ie means for example.

I also don't recall saying anything about "comps". I don't do many comps, I do however use a players card ALWAYS. I pay for my meals.

If I play black, I play one run through a 6 deck shoe. However, the wynn now has the constant shufflers so I limit myself to 10 - 15 wins. At this point I switch to dos xx's (from corona). My wife then comes and gets me off the table. Works for us. Not $5k but that's just one casino. It takes less than 10 minutes for the 10 - 15 wins.

My loss limit is determined by the table minimum. I live in so cal and go to vegas at least once a month for a 4 day weekend. I think I've seen alot of you card counters but I'm not sure. I've read most of the information on this website and from the description of having an "act", I now think I can remember seeing alot of you counters. of course, you're the guys who cut in on a shoe, lose a few times then walk away. :)

Cheers.

In sports, business and in blackjack, I compete. The joy and satisfaction comes to me in knowing or in trying to do the best I can with my ability.
There is also fun in knowing you can beat the casino in a game where they set up the rules in their favor.
I do not see where the joy can come in playing a game that you know you will lose on if you play long enough.

I guess we see things completely from different prospectives.

ihate17

e.g. is example given, not for example. So, go back inside your glass house waterboy.

LAYHSB