Free Forum - Four Aces

gratianus

Posts count: 30

Topics count: 18

Apr 29, 2021, 5:49:50 PM

Send message

I was dealt four aces. Unfortunately I wasn't playing stud, but BJ at a club that did not allow RSA. So there I was with a hand that needed the dealer to bust. She didn't. My question is: Would doubling down on my twin 2/12s been at all justifiable? I doubt it. Five cards would have given me a playable hand. Talk about a bad beat.

Morgan Kane

Posts count: 17

Topics count: 3

Apr 30, 2021, 11:53:14 AM

Send message

If you are dealt AA and KNOW that the next 2 cards are AA, then (assuming RSA is not allowed) hit is the correct play (duh). But you dont know that do you? Its the same as having 11 on two spots and receive Ace on both of them after doubling down. Happens all the time..move on.

gratianus

Posts count: 30

Topics count: 18

May 1, 2021, 1:36:38 PM

Send message

Maybe my question/predicament isn't clear. I split my aces and got an ace on each split ace. I could not hit the hands because the rule at this club allowed for only one card per split ace. My question is: is there any reason, once I've gotten the second ace on each split ace, to double down on the 2/12 hand (presuming you're allowed to do it)? Five cards would give me a 17-21 hand and all other cards would leave me in no better a situation than I already was in except that I would now have doubled the money at risk.

Morgan Kane

Posts count: 17

Topics count: 3

May 1, 2021, 8:02:05 PM

Send message

If you were allowed to double after resplitting aces (which is a very rare rule), you would also be allowed to hit. Your scenario sounds artificially constructed with little (if not zero) practical value.

I suppose optimal play would be to double against a 6, but not against a 5 (presuming H17). The rule of thumb usually goes like «the bigger the Ace, the better the double», and AA in your scenario is even a worse double than A2. I suspect the main reason for this is that you can catch more cards that does not make your hand pat, and at the same time would still make your hand soft (Lets say you get a 4, and would want to hit again).

With AA you can catch 5 cards that you would want to hit again (A,2,3,4,5). With a hand like A7 there are no cards you could get that you would want to hit again after your double, against a bust-card. Thats why A6 and A7 are often such great doubles.
If this was not satisfying, I hope you can be more specific, and can come up with a concrete example (like the dealers upcard).

Don Schlesinger

Posts count: 6543

Topics count: 72

May 1, 2021, 10:07:10 PM

Send message

"If you were allowed to double after resplitting (not resplitting; just splitting) aces (which is a very rare rule), you would also be allowed to hit."

Actually, that's not true. There have been instances where, after splitting aces, you were permitted to double but NOT to hit. They were willing to give you one more card, requiring a double, but not multiple hits to the A,A holding.

In fact, in that situation, and for, say, a 6-deck shoe, doubling A,A vs. 6 is just barely better than hitting, and both have positive e.v., so doubling would be correct. For any other dealer upcard, if you were permitted to hit, it would be superior to doubling.

All these answers can be found in the Appendixes of BJA3.

Don

Morgan Kane

Posts count: 17

Topics count: 3

May 1, 2021, 11:49:30 PM

Send message

Wow, I didnt know that. I guess the second edition is not sufficient anymore ;)

However, I found Wong’s Appendixes (Im sorry, I only have BJA2), and correct me if Im wrong, but they seem to conclude that if you are left with the option of doubling down or standing, then doubling down will always be the right play! Even against the Ace!

Can you confirm Don, do you have the same numbers?

Its an honor to have a world class expert commenting on this. Thank you for taking your time!

Don Schlesinger

Posts count: 6543

Topics count: 72

May 2, 2021, 12:40:55 PM

Send message

First things first: get BJA3!

It's twice the size of the second edition and contains so much more material.

Second, yes, my answer was incomplete and really should have addressed the resplitting issue. Do you have Wong's Basic Blackjack? If so, the full BS is on page 110. It's a complicated issue. You surely wouldn't want to double vs. the dealer's strong upcards (7-A) for the full amount. So, the trick is to "double" in name only, by doubling for less and putting up a token bet, in essence, allowing a single hit to try to improve the hand.

There are refinements and exceptions to the above simplified concept, but unless you can actually play this game somewhere, let's leave it at that for now.

Don

New Articles

Four Aces