First time counting

I've read the KO book, spent many hours counting cards from a deck and decided to try out my new found skill at a local Colorado Casino. Colorado has a $5 maximum bet, so the casinos don't really care about counters and without being able to spread my bet I couldn't do much damage.

Feeling very confident, I sat down at 3rd base at a double deck game with one other player. Wow, counting in a casino was much harder then I though! I kept losing the count or when I had the count I really slowed the game down when deciding what to do with my own hand. I also found that even with one player, I wasn't always sure if I had counted his cards after I had made my decision. My confusion was even worse when two more people sat down at the table. I know I need to consider all cards that I can see when I make my decision, but like I said... I had a hard time remembering what I had and hadn't already counted.

I'm a seasoned basic strategy player and can make the right decision faster then anybody I know, but counting really threw me for a loop! I had hoped to take my newly learned skill on a little trip to Vegas in a few weeks where I could reap some profits spreading $10-$75 but now I'm not sure I am ready.

Is this a pretty typical 1st time counting story? What do you pros do to remember what you have and have not seen? Am I better off at 1st base so that I can play my hand and then watch the other cards?

Thanks in advance!

The most important line in your discussion to me is the following:

You should not go to Vegas as a counter expecting to win. If you do, you are setting yourself up. The long run is all you should care about, it forms a big part of the attitude that a counter brings to the table, perhaps the most important part.

As for being a newbie, after you feel completely comfortable having played thousands of hands on a simulator, you still have a lot to learn and the only way you are going to do that is actual time at the tables. So, go for it!

--The Mayor

Try face up because some cards cancel the others out & you don't have to count every card when this happens.

That is exactly what happened to me my first time out. Rest assured, it gets easier and easier the more you play. You just begin to recognize the cards instead of counting them. The game you describe sounds like an excellent way to get your feet wet and keep you out of trouble at the same time.

I remember the great sense of accomplishment I felt when I finally got thru an entire 6 deck shoe without losing the count once.

Even after a lot of actual casino play, sometimes a juicy split with doubledowns, or a quick dealer bust, would cause me to lose track of the cards because I was paying more attention to the win.

It is like learning to ride a bike, you fall down a lot at first, but eventually you reach a level to where it is natural, and then you can start riding blindfolded with no hands!

I always caution neophytes that, regardless of how fast you can count down a deck, or how many hours you have spent in front of a computer with practice software, you can pretty much expect to fall flat on your face the first time you try to count in a casino. I know I did.

I suggest that you learn the KO Rookie system first. That is, just concentrate on keeping the count, and play basic strategy. You may increase your bet during positive counts, if you like (although that's hard to do in CO).

Once you can keep the count effortlessly, then you can start worrying about strategy variations. Even then, it is not necessary to learn them all at once. Learn the 4 most important ones, and when you are comfortable using them in a casino, add another 4, and so on.

It takes a lot of practice, but eventually you will be able to count on a near-subconscious level. You will always know the count, almost without thinking about it. You will be able to maintain the count while involved in a deep discussion with the dealer, other players, etc.

Of course, some of us are real gluttons for punishment. After successfully taking KO to that level, I decided to learn a more complex system, essentially starting the whole process over again! :-)

I had played and counted so many thousands and thousands of hands at home on the kitchen table, over a number of years, before I went to a casino that it was no problem playing in a casino. As SOTSOG said, it becomes second nature.

Sure there was a little adrenaline the first time playing for real money, but the counting went on without even a speedbump.

I certainly don't want to give a beginner the idea that transitioning to the casino is a snap, because the distractions that are piled up in the casino environment are formidable. On top of that I have a relatively small brain. My point is that tons of playing at home can make the transition easier.

I also didn't have too much trouble going from practice games and simulations to a real casino. I was a bit befuddled for about an hour, but after that it came pretty easy. I am just a hobby player using KO, and have probably only logged about 300 hours in real casinos. I still loose the count from time to time, usually when there are lots of splits or a dealer blackjack (worse in face down games of course). Soft hands with double downs while counting can mess me up, but my wife will add up my hand and make sure I do BS correctly while I focus on the count. Keep at it though. It becomes second nature quickly.

Big Al,

it's good to see that you've decided to make the big step. Keep practicing, working at it, and in time, talking will be strictly subconscious.

M.

Thanks, while I am concentrating on technique I need to also remember reality!

I don't remember seeing any face up DD games in Vegas. I thought DD would be eaiser to start with then a shoe. Are there DD up games in Vegas? Thanks!

Thanks Parker, I thought the complete KO was so easy I decided to go for it! I suppose rookie would eliminate the estra time it is taking me to make decisions. I have to admit, I am looking forward to my next practice session! Thanks for the encouragement and tips.

Did you deal face several hands face down? The thing that caught me by surprise is the difficulty in counting a face down pitch game. Some cards are dealt face up (your fellow players hit cards) while thier base hand is face down. Did you start playing face up games? Thanks!

to count were:

1. When the dealer exposes a natural in a face down game with the

ace being the hole card. It comes out of nowhere and the

frustrated players toss their cards all over the place with very

little time before the dealer scoops them up. I've seen the eyes

of several novice counters get all bug-eyed in these situations.

2. When the dealer repeatedly hits your low-value hand and it takes

6 or seven cards to make your hand. each hit is it's own

incremental change to the count and a whole new playing strategy

decision.

Get fluid with these, and you'll know you've arrived.

Good Luck,

Spok

is to use the playing matrix like counting sheep. I know this sounds
crazy, but I memorized the whole damn matrix putting myself to sleep.
Problem is, you have to start at the bottom every other night because
I'm out cold by the time I get to the softies.

Spok

My experience is it happens pretty quickly. Once you get to the point you do not think everybody is looking at you, the ability to count comes back. It will not be but a few sessions.

You should probably range your bets even in the Colorado game to get used to doing that all the time. There are still a few less than five dollar games in LV and you should probably play them for a day before betting as you propose.

Counting cards is not rocket science - I believe anyone of average or better intelligence can learn to count cards effectively.

However, like everything else, it comes easy to some people and not so easy to others.

I learned KO rather easily, but a level two count was hard work. And I personally cannot imagine struggling with a level three count and an ace side, but the Uston APC is a popular system.

Some people have a mind like a calculator, and take to counting like a fish to water. The rest of us have to work at it.