First attempts at cover play

I just got back from a great extended weekend trip in Las Vegas. I had a chance to play at a bunch of casinos. The most fun I had was playing alongside a couple of my friends, who are both non-counters. In fact, they don't even make all perfect basic strategy plays. I'm not sure if this helped disguise my counting or not, but I tried my best to look like a novice too.

At one point, with a very positive count, I was dealt a 15 against the dealer 10. Using KO preferred, any running count over the pivot point (+4) says you stand instead of hit in this case. So I stand. She busted. When she flips over my cards, she chastized me for standing and making the "wrong" play. I pouted that I had busted the last 10 times I hit a 15 against a 10, and this way I at least had a chance to win. She told me I should always hit a 15 vs. a ten, but 16 vs. a ten could go either way. She advised me to pick a rule and always stick to it. So I tell her in my best ploppy impression, "Well if I always did the same thing, it wouldn't be gambling, now would it?" ;o)

I left the table after about 1 hour, and my friends stuck around. When I rejoined them later, they were laughing because after I left, she told them that I was a bad blackjack player. She said I just got lucky. I never really thought about it, but to the untrained eye, a good AP player with some decent cover would look like a bad basic strategy player (doesn't always adhere to BS) that lucks out and just happens to win most big bets.

chips or at least big stacks of green chips otherwise any cover is a bad investment. You should not give up 20% of your win rate for only a marginal increase in lifetime hours. At high stakes you might be able to increase your lifetime hours several fold with some smart cover....but at low stakes you're chances are virtually nil of ever being backed off...hence cover betting returns very little.

...unless maybe you stand up and start actually saying "+1, +2, +3,..." I play in several different casinos in the south and enjoy playing red sometimes when I'm with friends (non-AP players) who cannot afford to play green/black. In these casinos I tend to play at the nickel double deck games and spread from $5 to two hands of $30, which is sort of a ridiculous 1-12 spread for a DD game. I don't even attempt ANY cover play or betting at all - going back to minimums on shuffles and firing right up to max bets if the count shoots up.

I feel like I've got a pretty good act down for those conditions(man do I have trouble adding up those soft hands - can you help me dealer?) and the deviations from basic strategy help like you say. At one casino in fact I have found a dealer who encourages me to press my bet when the count rises. He's a little off and only can follow the running count of the last round, but it's nice to have that excuse. I don't always follow his advice either - because he's usually wrong. But I sure act like he's the man.

I have never even come close to being backed off. I think a dealer might have shuffled early once and the penetration suddenly got a lot worse (dropping from a normal 1.1-1.2 decks to about 0.8) at one casino, but I'm not sure that was from the supervisors as much as it was a change in dealers. Needless to say, I stood right the hell up on that 2nd one.

bigplayer is exactly right, as usual. At least that is this lurker's opinion.

Yes, silver.

$2-$20

And had a group of goons try to photograph me. They actually followed me outside trying to take my picture, after threatening to arrest me.

Twice.

(Same place)

Just lucky, I guess.

Best,
Syph

(ps I`ve also been backed off for a $5-$20 spread, sigh...)

anyone at the Cal Neva could read.

bigplayer and devorama,

devorama misspoke when he called his standing on 15 vs. 10 at +4 a cover play: in fact, that's just one of the Illustrious 18 plays in KO Preferred.

Dog Hand

They have it memorized. The goon squad teaches them the tresspass act after they get marry had a little lamb down pat.

They have it memorized. The goon squad teaches them the tresspass act after they get marry had a little lamb down pat.

When I said "cover play" earlier, I was referring to my attempts to act like a novice. I guess I misused the term. I didn't make any intentionally "wrong" bets or plays. But I DID get backed off a single deck game playing red spreading 5-25. But that was totally my fault, because I was in that casino way too long.

there are some casinos for which a $25 bet is like a $500 bet at other casinos (el Cortez for example). Regardless, a 5:1 spread at single deck is a bit piggish.

I used an 8 to 1 spread in a SD game over the weekend playing for about 9 hours off and on. No heat whatsoever. Of course I had terrible luck and got beat for about 120 units. This place either doesn't have a clue or knows I count but doesn't care. I'm using some cover and a pretty good act, but damn, after 9 hours in 2 days someone should have backed me off. They just kept the comps coming.

Keep playing there at 8-1 spread until you get back to even. I promise...you WILL get backed off. Most casinos will allow AP players to lose. They are simply erroring on the side of caution. Back-offs are bad for business if they are done too hastily. They also know most AP's are under financed. They may test your bankroll if you are losing. They are simply hoping you run out of money before they have to back you off. If you start to win they will usually allow you to gain most of your losses back...and then if you are too obvious in your play you will get backed off around even or before. Just because you don't "feel" heat doesn't mean there isn't any with the eye in the sky.

Just my two cents.

kRis

kRis is right on. That is exactly what I have personally experienced in my past encounters. They let you come back out of the hole and whammo! You're toast! However, sometimes during a losing session/s, I think it is still possible that the PC's might size us up as though we may just be bad counters who are making a ton of mistakes.

Once, a PC was telling me stories about professional players. Part of what he said was how they have no problem with counters who make mistakes with their "counting systems". When they do, they dump a lot of $ and bla, bla, bla .... It's really fun having these kind of in depth conversations with a PC while acting so ignorant but amazed about pro players and counting, especially when you're counting, spreading 1 -20, rat-holing and winning during the conversation. ;-)