Fair comment on the counting systems.

Probably time to up my game. I have mentioned a few times that I just haven't logged many hours in the past. Normally it was 1 or 2 vacations, that's all.

Been taking it more seriously of late, but getting my head handed to me recently. Have seen some great stretches in the past, too, but a lot of red figures lately.

First, I like a system that has a high betting correlation. You have to bet every hand and I think this is the most important. Deviations from basic strategy don't happen that often so I think the playing efficiency is less important.

I also prefer balanced counts over unbalanced counts. With a balanced count you can just jump in the middle of a shoe and start counting. I also think the concept of a balanced count is easier to understand.

I also like a count that is Ace reckoned, and prefer a single parameter count over a multi parameter count that requires a side count.

I also prefer balanced counts over unbalanced counts. With a balanced count you can just jump in the middle of a shoe and start counting. I also think the concept of a balanced count is easier to understand.

In any case, why would you want to jump in the middle of shoe and start counting? I would think you would want to jump in the middle of a shoe after you've been counting.

Also, while the concept of a balanced count might be easier to understand, unbalanced counts are generally easier to use.

I really don't know that much about unbalanced counts, but I did read the KO book so I'm not completly in the dark. I thought I read somewhere that it is difficult to jump in the middle of a shoe with KO but don't remember where. So I will throw it back to you. How do you enter a shoe game say with already a deck dealt with a unbalanced count.

Now with a balanced count it is easy. You just jump in and start counting. Just assume the cards you missed are behind the cut card which will reduce your pen.

Many times I have been walking past a shoe game that has just started where I missed the first few of rounds and see a round where a ton of small cards come out. Just sit down and play.

I imagine I don't maximize my wins with hi lo but it's easy to use and has done well by me over a very long time. Wonging out is also a key, IMHO.

I've been using the KissIII count for years and it gets the $$$! It's clearly advantageous to Wong in at whatever point in the shoe the count is right. I've never really gotten why a player would approach a shoe game and start counting half way into the shoe. Now if I walk up to a table and I see Lots of babies in play, sure I'll most likely play the rest of the shoe,but I won't be counting that shoe.

Also, it's interesting to note that all the big teams that have made a ton of bucks used hi-lo.

They also stuck to S17 games.

How do you wong out if you are the only player and there are no other available tables?

I have played over thirty years and never faced that situation. I don't play in remote locations all over the world like you do.

Big deal.You should read the interview Richrd Munchkin did with John Chang and his wife. I read it some time ago on Arnold Snyders website.
It was quite enlightening regarding simplicity. Good cards!

"With a balanced count you can just jump in the middle of a shoe and start counting."

With all due respect Midwest Player, the above sentence could easily be taken out of context from its intent. Since the free board has many new players, I believe anyone who considers jumping into a game in progress, regardless if it is in the middle of a shoe, or at any other point, hopefully, you will be standing near the table at the beginning of the shoe, and counting it down, so you already know the count when you enter. Otherwise you would be playing poorly cut shoes and you do not want to get into really bad habits like that. Also, do not place too much emphasis upon walking by a pit and seeing a clump of small cards on a table in the middle of a shoe, because you have to get a true count, which is the running count divided by unseen decks, which in this case are both in the discard tray, and those left to be played in the shoe. Do not overbet this situation.

BoSox

.....when you have little choice but to start your play in the middle of a shoe. In the upper midwest there are many small casinos with only two or three blackjack tables open and often you will find the tables completely filled. When a seat opens up you have to be ready to take it. If its near the end of the shoe you can probably wait until the start of the next shoe, but if the shoe has just started you better be ready to play or someone else will want your seat.

As far as walking by a shoe I have alreay seen the entire table without a large card. Easily a running count of +12 and on a 6 deck shoe that is at least a true count of +2.

No one has yet explained how to enter a blackjack game mid shoe with an unbalanced count so if it can be done lets hear it.

"No one has yet explained how to enter a blackjack game mid shoe with an unbalanced count, so if it can be done let's hear it."

I don't understand why entering mid-shoe for an unbalanced count is any different from mid-shoe entry with a balanced count.

The cards in the discard tray are, for counting purposes, behind the stop card in the shoe. You start your count the same way as if you are counting the first card dealt from a fresh shoe. When the stop card arrives (horrendous penetration!), you're done. How else could it possibly be?

Don

Using an unbalanced count jumping in mid shoe is the same as using it off the top. You start your initial running count per design (Red 7 on a 6 deck shoe the IRC is -12), and jump in when desired.

For Red 7 when RC = 0 you have approximately a .5% edge on average.

So if you can it makes sense to jump in at RC 0 or higher, regardless of how many cards are unseen.

As said before, best not to if you can help it due to the reduced effective penetration but sometimes the situation warrants it like crowded tables or for cover.

any count system but effective pen is directly proportionate to your entry point. Thus you have a less than desirable circumstance. If you need to play to "hold the seat" it's best to flat bet the minimum for the rest of that shoe. Depending on where you are, sitting out every other hand can be an option too.

Revereman, you have been around for many years and your posts are always reasonnable. However I get the impression that you are not very ambitious.I'm mot sure whether you believe that one can make a living at this game and you're probably already satisfied if you don't lose. I respect this point of view which is primarily aimed at avoiding stressful situations and keeping shortterm fluctuations to a minimum.
But many of us on this site want to make serious money. I consider avoiding busy tables as the most important criteria for game selection (number of hands per hour!)even before rules and penetration. From that perspective any type of wonging is secondary especially if you can get a good spread which is the case in many places outside the USA.

Francis Salmon

You are right about my situation. I will put the big money on the table when the count dictates but I do try to limit short term fluctuations. Over the last few years, I'd rather take some small wins than maximize my hours (as I did when I was younger).
I have written many times on this forum that I truly admire those of you who can make a living at this game. I believe that takes extensive travel and some non-BJ risks which I am unwilling to take. Except for some isolated situations, the BJ conditions in the US, particularly CT, AC, and Las Vegas, are not great. I have a nice little hobby that gives me psychic satisfaction about beeating the baig bad casinos at their own game.

See link. Just drop in the tag values and see how powerful your system is.
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/card-counting-efficiency.php