Editorial in Las Vegas Review Journal

Encouraging that the local paper is getting into the game. Maybe we can get them interested in taking a look at the ripoff going on with 6/5 blackjack and some of the other carnival games. These ripoffs are considerably more damaging to the long term Las Vegas economic outlook than the their hostility and harassment of a few counters. Obviously I agree with the writer's belief that some of the actions are "breathtakingly stupid".

EDITORIAL: 'Advantage' gamblers

Steve Bernier, a professional gambler from New Hampshire, did well the night the casino at the Resort at Summerlin opened four years ago -- winning $17,000 in cash and $10,000 in comps playing slots at the off-Strip property.

So how was he rewarded by the upscale casino's management at the time? He was handcuffed, strip-searched, interrogated and threatened with prosecution by the resort's security officials and Gaming Control Board agents.

Mr. Bernier committed no crime ... unless you consider using your noodle a criminal act. You see, Mr. Bernier is considered by gaming officials to be an "advantage" gambler -- a player who takes advantage of mistakes by casino officials or employees to legally increase his odds of success ... and pocket the winnings.

Sad to say, Mr. Bernier is not alone. Every year, dozens if not hundreds of bettors are harassed and detained when they count cards, read the hole cards of careless dealers, play slot machines that are paying out disproportionate jackpots, or engage in any number of other perfectly legal ways to cash in on mistakes or sloppiness by casino managers and employees. And far too often, the Gaming Wire's Rod Smith reported on Sunday, casino security and the state's Gaming Control Board treat these successful gamblers as nothing better than grifters or con artists.

As Allen Lichtenstein of the ACLU points out, the intimidation of gamblers who are engaged in legal activities certainly seems to violate their constitutional rights.

What's more, in a city that's desperately dependent upon the goodwill of tourists for its livelihood, such tactics are breathtakingly stupid. If it becomes the widespread perception that hostility and harassment are the reception successful gamblers can expect from Las Vegas betting parlors, our long-term economic outlook is shaky, indeed.

The paper says "Mr. Bernier committed no crime", what he did was "legally increase his odds of success", and it was a "perfectly legal ways to cash in on mistakes", not only that but he was "engaged in legal activities".

Bored Red better set that reporter straight. Of course, I suspect he is part of that "breathtakingly stupid" crowd.

I have seen 6/5 Bj mentioned a couple of time is the RJ. Once for sure by Lenny and the other time in Gaming Wire. But they were only passing mentions not whole articles.

>Bored Red better set that reporter straight. Of course, I suspect he is part of that "breathtakingly stupid" crowd.

I would rather be "stupid" than a THIEF.

If I drop my wallet walking down the boardwalk, realize what I did, and turn around just in time to see you pick up my wallet and walk away... I'm gonna demand my wallet back. And if you don't I'll kick your ass and TAKE it back, and I don't care HOW "legal" it is for you to pick that found wallet up and keep it. And if YOU wouldn't do the same thing then YOU are the "breathtakingly stupid" one.

that you have $100 in your wallet and you offer someone a $10 bet to flip a coin for a chance to win what is in your wallet. They give you $10, win the coin toss and the $100, would you still kick their ass and take your money back?

I will give you a little different twist to the ongoing debate.

Many years ago while playing 21 at the Stardust I witnessed a lucky slot player hit several $1 jackpots on the same machine within a short period of time. The slot personnel kept refilling the machine and eventually the player decided the run was over. At that time the slot people took the machine out of play because there was an obvious problem. The casino personnel made the decision that the player was entitled to keep on playing even though a problem existed.

Last year at the Golden Nugget a similar incident occurred on one of the $1 red seven machines near the restrooms. In a period of around 40 minutes an older couple hit approximately 10 jackpots of over $600 each. Again no panic by the slot personnel and again, once the couple tired or thought the party was over, placed an "out of order" sign on the machine.

Maybe there is no argument here but as a slot player I would feel no compulsion to cease playing the machine and tell the casino personnel "I can't play this as it appears to be broken". I would not have an argument with them should they tell me the party was over.

When it comes to playing 21 and dealer mistakes it all depends upon the dealer. If the dealer and I are on friendly terms I will correct the mistake, otherwise I let them make or not make the correction. With my feelings toward casino owners I feel no moral pain from taking their money, mistake or no mistake. Casino owners enjoy a legal license to steal in so many ways and if they or their employees screw up so much the better for the players.

Golf is a game of honor, at least on the visible surface. Football, baseball and basketball are games of "just win". I enjoy them all and never engage into arguments about their respective morality. They, like gambling, are games and the plus and minus ledgers eventually come out about even.

"You see, Mr. Bernier is considered by gaming officials to be an "advantage" gambler -- a player who takes advantage of mistakes by casino officials or employees .. "

Even the paper really dosen't get it. Re-read their definition of what an AP player is. For the most part, AP BJ play is knowing BS, knowing how to find a good game, successfully counting cards, and managing your BR. No mistakes are needed on anyone's part for that to happen. ST'ing the same. Just good old fashioned educated play.

While trying to do right by the player, even the paper still sees the AP as a sort of piranha who has to lurk around the edge and feed off the failings of the weak.

To Red Bored -I'm curious, would you consider reading a dealer's tell as immoral also? Should that be reported to the pit?

Good luck all -

Hey red bored now you can press charges for theft if he took the wallet. After you beat him up then he can file charges on you for battery. Then when you resist the arrest then the cops can beat you with thier batons. Now that would be something! Sorry but I had to let it out. Whiiiiiiiiissssssssssshhhhhhhhhh thump!

I have every legal right to use force to secure or protect my property. Looks like I've stumbled on a den of math whizzes who don't know how to read.

If you went to law school, like I did, you would have learned that you can only defend your property with appropriate force. That is, you may punch an assailant to get him to leave you alone, but you can be charged with battery if you go further than required. An Illinois sheriff's deputy is going to jail for just such conduct during a brawl at a wedding reception.

I would take you out for a beer and a giordano's stuffed spinach and brocolli pizza. Chicago is my home city. I miss it!

>That is, you may punch an assailant to get him to leave you alone, but you can be charged with battery if you go further than required.

They have to catch me first.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Jul-09-Wed-2003/opinion/21680629.html

regarding them catching you -

judging by your posts you wont get to far considering youre tripping over your own feet.

peace out

Tried running with both feet in my mouth, couldn't get far.