Craps

Hi Listers,
New to BJ21.com
Had a chance to read - Wong on Dice and would like to obtain the proficiency of "little joe".

Have built a practice rig and continue to throw as the book dictates - having the dice roll off my fingertips.. was a college bowler and have excellent hand eye coordination.

Having a hard time making the dice come to rest next to each other.. find that this is the best scenario for avoiding the "7".

Have rolled over 700 times and averaged 6.2 SSR - seems random :(

Another issue:
was @ the casino and was on a hot roll where the black chippers were making big $$$ - they toked me a bit.. after that roll, i received much attention from the pit boss and when i returned to the tables, i was given a "final warning". I'm a "red chipper".. how do you deal with this?

What's the best dice setting strategy? hard ways? 3V?

have only been playing for 6 mo's or so and find the game lot's o' fun.

purchased casino dice - proprietor said "no way can you influence dice" - he's been playing for 30 years? any advice is welcomed..

Cheers - BigE

Although increasing SRR will clearly improve your EV, it is extremely difficult to achieve. A small difference between the dice in spin rotation speed has a huge affect in pitch control. However, you can still achieve an advantage with an SRR around 6. If you join greenchip, you will find my post in the archives on how this is possible.

Unless you have incredible control, HW is the best general purpose set, but 3V and 2V are best for attempting to make the 5,9 and 4,10 points, respectively. I also recommend against taking odds on the 4,10 points (the small gain in EV does not justify the increase in variance).

I have been playing the hardways sets and averaging around $70hr. I don't know many 21 players who do that well.

"I beseech you, into the bowels of Christ, it is possible that you may be mistaken." - Oliver Cromwell

thanks..

finally received my pyramids - ssr has gone up.. the softness of the rubber makes the dice bounce less.. practice practice practice..

Have just started playing a little craps. I play the pass line and then take full odds (have been 5-10x). Is that a reasonable way to play? Besides trying to influence the dice, are there other bets I should be making? I understand my way is a fairly conservative strategy. Thanks.

Have just started playing a little craps. I play the pass line and then take full odds (have been 5-10x). Is that a reasonable way to play? Besides trying to influence the dice, are there other bets I should be making? I understand my way is a fairly conservative strategy. Thanks

You need a lot of skill to overcome the HE on place 6,8. I also recommend against taking odds on 4,10.

How you attack the game is based on your skill level. If you are like me and can achieve a 47%+ on-axis percentage with no pitch control, you can gain an advantage with pass line + odds bets on 5,6,8, and 9. I'm not saying it's a big advantage; blackjack is better. The details are in the greenchip archives.

Also, you want to avoid betting on other people rolls. That will most certainly eat whatever advantage you have.

Note: It took me about 2 months to achieve my skill level and I was never able to improve beyond it, even after 18 months of practice.

I don't think I could ever control the dice and don't want to put in the effort to try, and I'm skeptical of those who say they can (I'm not saying it's impossible and more power to them if they can). I was just looking for a game to play where I can't play BJ. I understood that playing the pass line and then taking full odds on all rolls was a conservative way to play where you wouldn't win or lose too much. You are saying that is not true and I accept your word since you are a long time well-respected poster. However, isn't it pretty weird not to bet on any other person's rolls and just on your own? By the way, in three fairly short sessions, I won $300, then twice lost $200.

The pass line and full odds bet is the best way to play craps, and minimizes house edge. The pass line has a house edge of 1.41%, and the odds bet is completely fair (0% HE).

If you take full odds, the HE is reduced as a percentage, but since you're betting more, it's a wash as far as $/throw losses go.

http://wizardofodds.com/craps

Nothing wrong with betting only on your own rolls; it slows down your bets, and your losses are reduced. Similarly, some people will also wait until the thrower "establishes" themselves with five non-7 rolls, before starting to bet. There's no credence to making them better throwers, but it's the same idea - the less you bet the less you lose.

As for dice control, I've never seen any evidence of it being successful, but it people can do it, more power to them!

Thanks for the great explanation and the link. I think I have a much better chance at BJ, and will just have to stop playing BJ at certain properties or not give in my comp card. Fortunately, there are other places to play BJ. I'm in the camp of getting comps. I'm sure I have received tens of thousands of comps over the years. It would have been interesting to keep a count such as that. Again, thanks very much. It was just what I was looking for.

If you just playing for fun, then the don't pass bet actually gives you the lowest house edge; however, you might get people mad at you for betting against them. The odds bets are fair. A lot of people use them to "lower" the overall house disadvantage. This is misleading, as your expected value remains the same, but your variance increases.

For example, a $5 bet on the pass-line you expect to lose $5(-1.41%) = $0.07. Even if you take 100x odds, the overall house advantage is miniscule, but you still expect to lose $0.07.

So, if you really want to be conservative, don't take odds bets.

BTW, I too am skeptical of most people who set dice. They tend to over-estimate their skill based on short-term results.

One guy played the don't pass line and he was an outcast. He really got on everyone's nerves as it took him forever to set the dice. He didn't roll too well either.
That would be really boring not to even play the odds bets. I might as well just play black or red on roulette all day.
I guess I will have to stick with BJ and not play where I'm not wanted. I wish I was better at poker. I'm just not willing to put the effort in that I put in to BJ all those years.
Thanks again for your help.

He's technically correct that the no-odds bet is better, but the difference is minuscule. 1.41% vs. 1.36%. That difference of 0.05% amounts to one nickel for a $100 bet, or half a penny for a $10 bet.

So don't worry about it and have fun.

... he means, "Pass, DON'T pass"! :-)

Don