Controversial topic

It seems that we are temporarily running out of food for discussion, so I suggest to revive the debate by simply stating that Blackjack is still by far the safest way to make a living if one doesn't want to go to work from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.
In recent years there has been a tremendous popularization of hold'em Poker which brought people to think that they can easily become rich by simply playing in a way that's advertised in numerous books and websites.
Here I'm telling you what still makes the difference between a sparrow in your hand and a pigeon on the roof (German proverb).

1a) In Blackjack it's enough to absorb a good book and do some training on your kitchen table to allow you to be ready for the live games.
1b) In Poker you can study numerous books, visit many sites and still not know what to do when you're sitting at the table.
2a) In Blackjack you don't need to be the best of your trade you just have to beat the dealer who is condemned to play like a robot.
2b) In Poker you always have to be better than the average of the table.
3a) In Blackjack you always know what you risk and you have a perfect control over your bankroll.
3b) In no-limit-Poker you might be sucked into pots that you didn't want to be in with devastating effects on your bankroll.
4a) In Blackjack you never take money from the other players but only from the casino which is ethically much more acceptable.
4b) In Poker, your opponents are the other players and some of them might have troubles digesting a big pot that they lost against you.
So there will be danger looming in the parking lot.

This list is not exhaustive but I'm sure I've made the right choice in my life.

Francis Salmon

Some good points, but I disagree with these two:

4a) In Blackjack you never take money from the other players but only from the casino which is ethically much more acceptable.
As far as I'm concerned, a bet is a bet. It always is agreed upon by two parties to make a bet: In these two scenarios - a blackjack player against the house, or a poker player against the rest of the players. I see no difference in ethics.

4b) In Poker, your opponents are the other players and some of them might have troubles digesting a big pot that they lost against you.
So there will be danger looming in the parking lot.
Well, we all know about the olden days of backrooming, but we also know that casinos still take other measures.

Casinos can do a lot of things but none of them is a threat to our physical integrity. So I don't really see what you mean by "other measures".
Concerning ethics you have to keep in mind that many people don't know how to deal with cash in hand.Ok,you can say that everybody is responsible for his own acts but I consider compulsive gambling as a disease and taking money from them wouldn't make me feel good.

Francis Salmon

"Casinos can do a lot of things but none of them is a threat to our physical integrity."

You obviously haven't read the same stories I and some others did.

Instead of just hinting you should tell us these stories.
But even more interesting than hear-say stories would be to know whether somebody who is visiting this board has actually been beaten up by Casino people.

Francis Salmon

Read the stories from Hyland and Francesco in the Bahamas. You don't need to be beaten up, a gun pointing at you is enough to scare most normal people.

Hello Francis, I am much interested into this topic and others,
I live in Europe too, cannot mail via this board to you.
Please mail me : varitex@gmx.de.

regards Eh.

The gun-story goes back to the early eighties and it took place on a dubious island in the Caribbean. Hyland had already been arrested in the Bahamas after being caught in flagranti with a concealed computer.So he obviously was considered a crook and with his hyper-aggressive approach(a whole gang of card counters invading a casino!)he was definitely heading for trouble.
At the end of this interview that I just reread, Tommy Hyland says that he wouldn't return to the Caribbean (understandibly so!)but no casino in the USA could scare him off.
Personally I take the safety aspect into account and would never travel to a third-world-country simply for juicy rules. But I also think that playing blackjack in the USA, Canada, Australia and Western Europe is perfectly safe.

Francis Salmon

"playing blackjack in the USA, Canada, Australia and Western Europe is perfectly safe"

No one here ever said the contrary!

I can safely say, lions aren't dangerous! Three posts later I can add, "when you see them in a zoo"...

"playing blackjack in the USA, Canada, Australia and Western Europe is perfectly safe"

No one here ever said the contrary!

Then I must have completely misunderstood yours and Disceaux Duck's posts!

"Casinos can do a lot of things but none of them is a threat to our physical integrity."

These are your words. I am only saying this isn't 100% true. From old stories and from not so old. I had a personal friend (ex-MIT) physically threatened BY A PIT BOSS in the parking garage of an AC casino about 3 1/2 years ago. This can happen anywhere in the world.

I was in many countries playing Blackjack :

Germany, Spain, UK, Belgium, Bulgaria, Slowenia, Italy,
Egypt, Portugal had never any problems,

I don't want to say here what I think about the USA.
Zengrifter is right.

Eh.

Hello Francis, I am much interested into this topic and others,
I live in Europe too, cannot mail via this board to you.
Please mail me : varitex@gmx.de.

As a principle,I don't exchange mails with people I don't know personally and the fact that you put my credibility in doubt really settles the matter. Und unter uns gesagt: du bist ein Idiot!

Francis Salmon

I was responding to the part in your original post in which you mentioned danger in a parking lot. I wasn't thinking of murder. As recently as a few years ago, Grosjean was assaulted by casino personnel outside of the LV IP. The assault was minor, especially in consideration of the restitution Grosjean was awarded by the courts.

I'm sure that if a player and writer of Grosjean's stature is roughed up outside a major LV Strip casino, that there must be plenty of "little guys" who receive some type of retribution from smaller casinos throughout the country.

Please keep in mind Francis, I'm not taking strong exception to your opinions. I'm just tossing in my opinionated comments. I have read your posts for a long while, and have much respect for your writings.

Sorry all for my foreign language !

Oh, das ist ja toll, da� Du Deutsch sprichst.

Hast Du etwas zu verbergen, oder musst Dich verstecken ?

Bist ganz sch�n arrogant.

Untersch�tze mich bitte nicht, ich weiss und kann mehr
zu einem Deiner letzten Topics als Du Dir tr�umst.

Den Idioten geb' ich zum Teil zur�ck.

Eh.

This is an American site and we should speak English so everybody can understand. I just added a short sentence in your own language so you would better grasp my anger.
If you really know something about one of the topics I raised, why don't you just post. I don't think any of these topics were delicate .
By the way, if you want to know more about me just use the search function with my name and you'll see by yourself whether I'm credible. Unfortunately, I cannot do the same with you since you have no history on this site.

Francis Salmon

PS.
Der "Idiot" bezog sich nur auf Deine uns�gliche Idee meine Glaubw�rdigkeit �ffentlich anzuzweifeln, nachdem Du mit mir Kontakt aufnehmen wolltest. Nicht als Werturteil zu verstehen.