"Communicating" with the dealer?

I don't know if anybody has thought about this, but

Is there a "standard protocol" for communicating with the dealer?

A single most important thing in blackjack games for me is Penetration, and I usually try to "shop around" for better dealers. But, there are also other constraints (like number of players at tables, etc) and it's not always easy to find and play with dealers with the best penetration. The next thing I do (while playing with a particular dealer) is to see if I can "tell" the dealer *in an extremely subtle way* that I would like deeper penetration. Of course, I don't want to give away my "identity", and I usually start to find out whether he or she will understand my "hint".

I ask questions like
"Do you play blackjack yourself?" (Under the assumption that if the dealer plays blackjack then it's more likely that he/she will know the importance of penetration.)
"Hey, we are spending way too much time shuffling." (I can go a little further as to suggest more rounds between shuffles depending on the dealer's reaction.)

I also test the dealer's knowledge of blackjack. For example,
"I hear that single deck games are better for players.", "The reason for this is that we get more blackjacks in SD games (which is btw not entirely true).", etc. etc...
in the hope that at some point I can convey "my wish" regarding penetration in an ever so subtle way.

The problem with this approach is that it takes toooooo long and I've *never* successfully "communicated" with dealers within 40 min or 1 hour timeframe.

(BTW, I also amply reward the dealer if he/she gives me good penetration. (Not necessarily as a bribe... I simply tip more when I win, and I win more when I get better penetration.))

Is there a "standard" way to achive this within a reasonably short time? Or, if there are any dealers on this board, do you guys have any suggestions?

~Black Jack in the Box.

Believe it or not, Dealers are pretty much normal people.

Think about how many actual Advantage Players there are among People that play blackjack. The same % seems to hold true for dealers. They usually are no more educated than the average ploppy.

Factors I have noticed:
1) Dealers see 1000s and 1000s of ploppies lose it all every day. Some don't gamble, they see the effects first hand.

2) Dealers are exposed to ploppy myths from the play and mouths of ploppies all day. Some of them start to believe the stuff.

3) If a Dealer does have superior knowledge, he can probably use it to his advantage in his career by using this knowledge against you (alerting the pit, etc.) rather than by your increased tokes.

4) If he is REALLY skilled, then why is he on that side of the table in the first place? Better he just plays it cool, doesn't bend rules, and goes and hits 'em hard somewhere else. Why jepordize what ever he has going on for a few tokes?

Thanks for the reply (even though this was not the answer I was looking for :->).

> The same % seems to hold true for dealers.
I am not sure. If you are a stock broker working on Wall street, the chances are you'll more likely trade stocks for yourself. Just a guess.

> 1) Dealers see 1000s and 1000s of ploppies lose it all every day. Some don't gamble, they see the effects first hand.
I absolutely agree with you on this. If you see "losers" day in and day out, then unless you are counting cards and *believe* that you can play better than the average joes, you won't gamble. (BTW, if you live in Nevada, or near A.C., or anywhere near casinos, then you shouldn't gamble at all. Just a personal opinion. ;-)

> 2) Dealers are exposed to ploppy myths from the play and mouths of ploppies all day. Some of them start to believe the stuff.
I think you are right. I'm often surprised by this. My favorite example is "table-hoppers changing the flow of the cards". I think some dealers *genuinely* believe this.

> 4) If he is REALLY skilled,
I think "knowledgable" and "skilled" are two different things. Many people on this board probably know *at least* some basics of card counting and possibly a lot more. But, how many people on this board have quit their day time jobs and start a new career (that is, as a pro bj player)? What I am hoping to find is dealers who are *familiar* with some ideas of card counting, not necessarily expert card counters who happen to have second jobs (as dealers).

BTW, I'd like to make one thing perfectly clear. What I'm looking for here is NOT some kind of collusion or cheating. I'm just looking for a (subtle) way to express my idea/desire to dealers, which is NOT normally possible since doing that will reveal my identity.

Thanks,
~Blackjack in the Box.

so much, Jonathan.

>> Here's a tip try and look for....

I really appreciate it. On a slightly different note, I like dealers with whom I can carry *slow* and *casual* conversation. I try to have some "bondage" with dealers with small talk, but if the conversation becomes too heavy then I tend to lose count. ;-( Another problem I have (in this context) is that I don't know how to remain anonymous/unrememberd/less conspicuous while being friendly with dealers....

Thanks again for nice insight *from inside* :-)
~BJ in the Box.

JUST A SUGGESTION. I READ LONG AGO THAT ONE WAY OF INCREASING PENETRATION IS TO TIP OR INCREASE THE TIP ON THE SHUFFLE HAND.(ASSUMING A FAVORABLE COUNT). THE DEALER MAY SHUFFLE ANYWAY. IF THEY DO I PULL BACK THE TIP AND THE HIGHER BET. THERE IS SOME EXPOSURE HERE BUT IT WORKS OFTEN ENOUGH FOR ME TO CONTINUE DOING IT.
YOU WILL NEED TO GIVE THE DEALER AT LEAST TWO ATTEMPTS.