Coming Soon: My First Vegas Trip

Hey Yall,

I have an interesting and curious problem- I'm clueless about Vegas and I'm making my first visit next month! So as an update since my last post I finally decided on using the Hi-Lo system on a more long term basis than K-O (Thank you again to Panama Rick for pointing out something that seems so simple- the numbers of syllabals that are said in Hi-Lo versus K-O). I've gotten at least moderately quick at counting down a deck (between 15-20 seconds per with no accuracy problems), and I've memorized the illustrious 18. This last step with the matrixes has been my most recent work and they still aren't second nature, but I'm practicing daily and improving on those.

I'm not a complete rookie in casino play (I've played in a few local Indian casinos with terrible rules before mostly for fun, and I could easily enough keep a count), but I've never been to Vegas. My first trip will, unfortunately, only be for a weekend, but I'm looking forward to a better test for my new skills. I'll have a small bankroll (1000-1500), which I'd prefer to win with, but losing really would only be a minor setback. I'll certainly buy the list of games from the site as the date approaches, but I'd really love some input on attack strategy. I've never had any real options as to games before (all have been 6 deck, DAS, S17, no surrender, basic games + an obnoxious ante and mediocre penetration) and I've never really had a large enough bankroll to make any even real trip plans before (always I had a few hundred bucks and wanted to count for fun). I know with such a small bankroll and my mass inexperience I have a high RoR, but I really would like to start formulating an attack plan with yalls help!

...Don't be concerned about your speed of counting. Consider this trip a learning experience. Find tables with as few other spots being played as possible. Remember, with only one other player (spot), or preferably head-to-head YOU are in control of the speed of the game, not the dealer, at least to slow the game down. You may not believe it now, but down the road you will be impatient with dealers that only deal 200 hands an hour in a head to head game.

I assume you won't be back counting and Wonging-IN, but you should have your Wonging-OUT points written in stone in your mind before you sit down Be faithful to those negative counts. "A penny saved is a penny earned" as that guy whose face is on a hundred dollar bill once said.

Insurance and even money is profitable. Respect that +3.

There are a lot of distractions in Vegas Strip casinos. Tune them out of your mind. When that cute, big busted CW passes and says "Cocktails" a response or even a glance is not necessary. With a little experience, you will be able to have a conversation with the dealer and the pit person and play accurate blackjack at the same time. The human mind is an amazing thing and learns through doing. You may not want to bother with surrender on this first trip, but put it on your list of things "to do". You will find late surrender here and there along the Strip. If you have a car, I would suggest visiting some local's casinos. They are not so intimidating and most have less distractions. Also, you should be able to get a comped buffet or two if you are playing carded off-Strip.

You didn't mention conversion to the true count. Have that down pat, but on this first trip you can hedge a bit if need be.

Be polite to dealers, floor people and other players. They may be assh*les, but you will find you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. The majority will respond likewise. This is not to say you should take any abuse from anyone. When you reach my age you can tell anyone to go screw themselves.

Take some time off to decompress and get out of the casino. See some of the unbelievable things on the Strip like the Bellagio Fountains, the TI Pirate Show, etc. Don't miss Big Elvis at Bill's (best free show in Vegas)

That's about all for now. Sounds like you have the making of a plan to me.

Good luck,
Cobbson

As usual. BJ's advice is excellent. While in theory his
play alone or with as few people as possible is good advice, I think for this first "real" trip, you should play at more full tables. With a $1500 bankroll, you should be playing low level tables ($5 or 10 minimum), and it will probably help you to play fewer hands than more hands. After all, at these levels, you're looking to get experience rather than make a killing. You'll also be able to see how others play and act. Good luck.

....Low level tables is a given. Full tables or lean tables both have their positive and negative points.

My first counting experience was just spending some time back counting without playing. Spent at least 5 or 6 hours doing this until I felt comfortable with my new found skill. Many houses will let you sit at the table, without playing, under the pretense of "just learning and would like to watch for a bit" as long as the other players don't object. Some player find someone standing behind them to be more annoying.

Once again,
Rotsaruck,

Cobbson

I'll echo some others here, and say stick with red action (which usually means more crowded tables) for now.

Don't graduate to green, black, purple or higher until you have calculated the TC so often that you just "know" the TC simply by glancing at the discard pile. This skill WILL happen eventually, but it takes quite a bit of experience before it does.

I am blown away at the prospect of betting $500 or more a hand someday. Anyone with any experience at this level? What spread? Where is there no heat?

Almost every professional player's mid-range or max bet is above $500.

low rolling pro who tops out just below $500 for heat and longevity reasons. lol

Thanks for the tips so far! I'll certainly be sticking to the red chips for my small bet, and probably using the TC - 1 = # of red chips to bet strategy I read in one of my books (it seems easy enough and still might help me get enough out there I stand a chance), unless anyone has a better suggestion. I've been practicing the deck estimation and I don't seem to be having issues. I'm fairly new to counting but I've been around cards forever, so it seems suspiciously simple.

Most of my games thus far have been at full or nearly full tables. I've had decent luck with the handful of empty or mostly empty tables, but I'm largely inexperienced with them (my crappy local casino is always packed). I've also never played with surrender rules before (I know the basic strategy surrender rules for my standard game but nothing beyond). I'm a little worried about playing downtown any. I've never played a double or single deck game or a H17 game. I know at least Friday evening I'll likely be playing downtown, but I had read somewhere that pretty much all of the downtown games played those rules. Is there any places/games downtown I should make sure to check out or avoid? I feel pretty comfortable assessing shoe games on the strip, but I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the others since I've never played them before.

This is mostly a learning and experience trip for me, but I'd like to give myself a fair shot to make a little and I certainly don't want to throw it away by making too many rookie mistakes or playing incorrectly since it's a different game. I've done a little casino play before as I said, but even counting was for entertainment- they were unbeatable games with my bankroll (Antes factored in wayyyy too much and a red chipper). I'm really excited to be fighting a battle I can win and see what I can do, so I want to be as sharp as possible.

Don't play SD or DD games downtown. Not only are the rules different, crowded tables mean very few hands and negate any counting advantage. H17 is a bad rule (the exact disadvantage can easily be found) but you can live with it.
Now that you are on this site, you need to promise us you won't play any ante games. Even if it is the only game in town, don't play it. If it is only $1 per hand and there are 50 hands per hour, you are paying $50 per hour to play BJ. You've told us you know how bad that is, but you are on way to becoming an advantage player, not a gambler, so leave your gambling in the past. Even if friends come over and just want to have fun at the casino. However, friends don't let friends drive drunk or play ante BJ games.

...Try a dd pitch game while you're here. I think you'll enjoy it. The house advantage created by h17 is almost completely wiped out by your advantage of playing a dd game over playing an 8 decker.

Also, you can really snap those blackjacks when you get them ;)

Cobbson

NO HOOKER EITHER

. . . you didn't answer the questions.
1) What spread do "purple players" typically use/get away with and
2) What casinos are ok with this level of action
Thanx

our top bets last year was as high as two hands of $3,000. Yes it gets a lot of heat if you stick around too long. As to casinos that are OK with this kind of action Bellagio would be an example.

That said, I mostly stick to 2x800 or 2x$1000 as a top bet for reasons of heat, table maxes, and CTR issues.

See you at the Bellagio in 3 years!

Since it sounds like you're going to stick with Red Action, I would advise getting a car and playing off the strip (Palace Station, Red Rock, Texas Station, Aliante, Fiesta, Southpoint, etc.) where you're more likely to find more avilable seats at more times of day. And I would recommend trying the 2D pitch games and geting used to the rhythm of counting a hand held game. The weekends are horrendous for finding $10-$15 minimum 2D tables with decent game situations (rules, penetration, # players, etc.) on the strip, though there are back counting opportunities. Save the evenings for just walking the strip, walking through the hotels/casinos, and taking in the Fountains, Volcano, Pirate show, etc. Watch out for the 6:5 games. Have fun!