Cellini - Top 6 Advatage Player Traps

My participation with this game is almost a year old. During that time, I have gleaned much information from a wide variety of BJ personalities and sources. One of my very favorites was when Cellini would post his �Top 6� lists and other incredibly informative narratives. I have recently received permission from Cellini to re-post one of the many posts I managed to retain before they hit the digital round file. So, without further fanfare, here is one of DV�s posts that I felt was informative for the newbie like me. This is verbatim with no editing whatsoever. Hope you enjoy. There are more.

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Top 6 Advantage Player Traps
by D.V. Cellini
Posted on 4/28/2003

If it looks like a trap, feels like a trap, and smells like a trap...

Here, right now, for the first time on the World Wide Web, are the casino industry's top six traps for catching card counters. If you want to stay out of the Griffin books, the SIN alerts, the Biometrica type systems, the Command Center's "most wanted" deck of cards, and off the sides of millions of milk cartons, the following should put you at your highest state of alert at least for the time being.

1) Almost any double deck game that offers Stand 17.
2) Any double deck game located in or just outside of the High Limit pit.
3) Any pit that has a floor person who seems particularly "on the ball" (very observant and suspicious).
4) Any BJ game with a $25 minimum, especially if $5 minimums are predominate.
5) Any game that offers a special rule such as "Snappers pay 2:1". The industry knows exactly what kind of people will flock to such a game and they consider it a lame duck shoot. The edge you might gain on such a rule is far less beneficial when you factor in the fact that your picture will be posted in every casino in town.
6) Any game with decent rules *including 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8 deck games) that's in need of a fill. Once you sit down and play, the floor person will have to order a fill, which will ring bells in surveillance. (They think that you were the one who depleted the chip tray).

Remember these words: See Dick play? See Dick count? See Dick make questionable plays that draw floor heat? See Dick bet backed off and barred from every casino in town? DON'T BE A DICK!!! Play it safe. If the game looks too good to be true, it probably is!

Best,

@#$%^
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i don't think so.

Iggy.

#6 is a move advocated by Patterson and also standard procedure of many ploppys. If a table is dumping get in on the action!

If you are going to follow all that Celinni says you might as well give up the game.

Iggy.

JL - Glad you enjoyed this post. There are several more and will have to wait for DVC's permission to post any additional. I believe DV is watching the responses to determine whether some of the others should be posted. There is a great Christmas story/analogy in the mix.

DVC posted this information to be helpful and to provoke thought, as he always does. This is his opinion on the Top Six traps based on his many, many years on the other side. If others feel that they have better information or more substative insight, I challange them to speak up rather than take a non-substatitve position.

toddler

Patterson and others advocate PLAYING at a a table that is in need of a fill because they believe in ploppy voodoo nonsense about card clumping and "hot" tables.

Cellini is advocating NOT PLAYING at a table that is in need of a fill because it is a bad move from a cover perspective. He makes a valid point that surveillance will be notified and will observe the fill as is standard procedure.

If you are going to try and compare Cellini to one of the ploppy voodoo peddlers, then at least choose an example where they are not advising the exact opposite plays.

Coug Fan is not right. Neither are you.

Ignacio never compared Cellini to a voodoo system peddler as Coug Fan states.

What Ignacio said does not make Cellini's point invalid -that the man will be watching the table fill.

What I heard Ignacio saying was that Cellini's point #6 would be incorrect if you feel it might be good camo to appear to be playing with the ploppy mentality.

Take a seat before the fill, keep your hat on and your head down, then shout "This bad boy must be running hot! Fill'er up!"

Just for the record, I interpret the following statement to be a comparison of Cellini to Patterson:

"#6 is a move advocated by Patterson and also standard procedure of many ploppys. If a table is dumping get in on the action!"

Of course, that is not the main point of my post. I get the distinct impression that Ignacio does not like Cellini's advice here. Maybe he can chime in to clarify his statement that "If you are going to follow all that Celinni says you might as well give up the game."

I am not sure what this guy has against Cellini, but I don't think it is bad advice to avoid being noticed by the surveillance / pit. Sure, for some acts a real brazen approach might ALSO work well, but in general a low profile approach tends to work for most. I would not say that either approach was necessarily wrong, but without knowing the specifics of the casino or a players act, I would tend to agree with Cellini's recommendation.

Ploppys do play at dumping tables and Patterson recommends it in one of his systems.

It is actually good cover. It can also be a very good move if the table is REALLY dumping, as they do from time to time.

I am just not all that tickled about the advice Cellini gave in the above post.

I like Celinni, he seems like a "Gentle Soul". But I am not about to make him my Guru, like some others here seem to have, or are about to.

Regards,
Iggy.

No big deal.

I personally don't like to camp out on tables nor be sitting there when they fill the racks either.

Personally, I have only tried the drunk boisterous act twice. So far, I am 0 for 2, and am not inclined to try it again. I was initially intrigued with the idea that if I was real loud and obnoxious, then they would never suspect that I was a counter.

The first time, I specifically asked the dealer to pay me in black for my big bets. I then started yelling out "black out" as loud as I could in unison with the dealer. I was having a blast and was really getting into character. Right about then, the PC called me away from the table and put me on flat bet restriction.

The second time was also a miserable failure as I got a complete barring. I was even down $2K at that time. Both times, I was playing long sessions (over an hour) at SD, so that is probably what got me.

I believe I'm stating the obvious that most blackjack sites, such as this one, are majority supported by players. I find it rare that casino personnel appear on various boards. When they admittedly do, it's mostly a combative exchange. Anyone remember sighguy? It is truly a gift to us on this side of the felt to have in our midst someone with many years in this realm, an industry insider who supplies, as John Lewis said, a unique surveillance perspective and who is supportive of what we are attempting to do. I believe we all have to take advice on any post with a speculative eye, even if it was posted by Wong. I believe DV is just stating fact of what he knows is true. It is informational to do with it what you will.

Since there has been no discussion so far on rules 1-5, I take it those rules do have a high degree of accuracy. If anyone knows of any other traps that are not listed here, please add them. I believe I can say with an air of confidence that I'm not the only one that would love to see this list appended.

When we, as players, are new to the finer aspects of this game, I'm sure it's easy to get enthralled and captivated with certain individuals. But to elevate anyone to a guru status would be like putting on blinders. Not everyone has all the answers, but some have insights and integrity that not many can provide in a public forum. That is where, I believe, DV is to many.

Can anyone state for me (because I don't know) anyone other poster from any other blackjack site that can provide an insider's view of surveillance and casino operations as well as DV? I'm asking because I'm curious and that's what I do....ask questions. I never stop.

toddler

they are all a little foolish.

As i said do as Cellini says and you may as well just quit.

Think about what he says...Hmmm.

You said integrity,well, when did he begin to work on the "Book"? Was he employed by the casino when he began to work on the -tell all- and solicit publishers? Or was he solicited and then began work on the "Book"?

He had a responsibility to be loyal and respectful to his employer, to be honorable and trustworthy.

There is still a code of honor in certain circles of this nation and it is my opinion that Cellini broke that code and thus has to be looked at with suspicion by those of us who do care about Integrity, Honor and Duty.

Iggy.

jazz music and the blues, didn't know you were a BJ maven.

Had any gigs in Chicago lately?

Iggy.

Iggy - you bring up valid questions as you should, but your assumptions, I believe, are based on ignorance of the situation that may never become public. I can see where someone would feel suspicious. Have you always been cynical or were you once a more trusting soul? I'm sure paranoia can run rampant in some, but you seem to be a bit more level headed than that based on your previous posts.

In addition, you only took issue with item #6. Can I surmise from your total lack of input that you agree with items 1-5? If not, let's see some specificity from you on the others rather than the riveting "Cute, but I think not".

"Almost any dd that offers s-17, don't play it". This is sound advice?

As i said, don't think so, foolish advice! I mean, this one statement
disqualifies him from any serious consideration. He would have you give up all ev for camo, "cute, but i don't think so"! Get it?

"Watch out for smart pit critters"....? Yeah.

Great stuff. :>)

You and John Lewis may idolize who you like, it is a free country.

Good cards,
Iggy.

DV did not say don't play the game. What he said was to be on your highest state of alert. Offering S17 on a DD game is becoming much more rare and stores could offer it for an entrapment sit. Iggy, why don't you offer up a Top Six list yourself and let's see how that flies in a public venue.

By the way, DV is not someone I idolize. He is truly a friend and we share a great mutual respect for each other and life in general. Do you have any friends, Iggy?

everyone hates me, sniffle, sniffle, booooohooo.

Will you invite me over for milk and cookies and be my friend? :->(

I will give you and you're buds a little snippet of advice from the business world, listen up.

"There comes a time when it is best to forget about what the OTHER guy is doing and worry about what YOU are doing"!

As to my six rules, how about one. "Never sacrifice ev for cover, you have too little edge as it is, move on if you feel threatened".

Good cards,
Iggy.

Ignacio makes some valid points and doesn't deserve to be flamed.

I tried the Email This Poster feature, but it wouldn't work.

I'm at work, and don't have your email address or phone number with me, but I need to let you know that John May is accusing you of being Cellini on Greenchip.

I responded, and told all that I personally know you.

Gee, I'm amazed. It's so unlike him to go off spouting about things without knowing what he's talking about.

"The first time, I specifically asked the dealer to pay me in black for my big bets. I then started yelling out "black out" as loud as I could in unison with the dealer. I was having a blast and was really getting into character. Right about then, the PC called me away from the table and put me on flat bet restriction. "

Bravo for you!! I would have loved to seen that!

So you got bet restricted; big deal. Hollering "black out" in unison with the dealer had to have been a trip and made it all worth while.

Good for you!