But what about the push ???

I read somewhere that you push 8% of the time, OK that sounds about right. The thing is when I start looking into how Basic Strategy is calculated it only seems to consider Wins & Losses. What about the push?? Isn't a push where I neither win or lose as good as a surrender(if not better), it's certainly better than a loss. I'm not saying considering the push in basic strategy is going to radically reshape the chart. I'd just like to see a more full accounting of the realities of the game in the models I look at. I'm not someone who just memorized the chart as a bunch on red lights and green lights. I looked into it and examined the numbers behind it so it would make real sense. That's where I started to wonder, but what about the push?

Basic strategy isn't designed to make you win the most hands. It's designed to make you win the most money (or lose the least money) on any given hand. For example, you double and will win a lower percentage of hands but because you're getting to make an extra bet you win more money overall despite losing more often.

In all of that, Wins, Losses, and Pushes are all figured in. The play strategy simply chooses the play with the highest expected value.

Is there a percentage stat related to double down bets? I would think it would be different related to counting verses basic strategy.

Thanks in advance for any comments on this. (or is it not possible to calculate). Good Cards, LWC.

Ok, where can I find such formulations that show accounting for win, loss and push. I've kicked over all the rocks I could find looking for one but couldn't find satisfaction.
All the calculations I have found open to dissection play for the win or the loss and negate all pushes as though they never occurred. From a position observing bankroll fluctuation this is true, but from a bankroll preservation perspective it's not. Don't forget we are still playing a losing game even with basic strategy. I find it curious that I can readily find reams of information on obscure plays that happen once every few thousand hands, but I have yet to see a thorough insitefull examination of the push.

LWC,

Here are the CVData-generated W/L/T results for a 6D, H17, DAS game played with B.S.

 

	% Won	% Lost	% Tied	Edge 

Soft DD	51.78%	42.29%	5.93%	9.49% 

Hard DD	55.64%	37.15%	7.21%	18.49% 

All DD	54.94%	38.08%	6.98%	16.87% 

rookE,

I've read your posts here, but I'm still uncertain what information you are seeking. For example, do you want to know the Win/Loss/Tie percentages for each two-card hand vs. each dealer's upcard: for example, for 9-8 vs. 3, the W/L/T %'s are 45.6/52.2/2.2 (by the way, I just made up these numbers, but at least they sum to 100)? Or are you trying to find something else?

Dog Hand

There is none. Being a push counts as 0. It seems a meaningless ? to me. Good Cards, LWC.

I'm just trying to see where everything lands. Everyone talks about simulating millions of hands but then fails to address the push. There has to be fundamental information to be found here like what play is most likely to push. It's just in a game where the margins are so slim and the search for an edge so exhaustive I'm trying to account for it all. It has to make a difference when you start calculating ev per hour and what not.
Thank you kindly for the chart showing W/L/T chart for Doubling Down using basic strategy. You sighted CV, Casino Verite presume... I'm concidering picking it up what's your take on it??

Knowing the push information is utterly useless. It's fruitless to pursue it.

Don

Here, hope this helps.