BlackJack Beginnings

I have always liked BlackJack and a few years back read about card counting etc. This has always interested me and i have always wanted to get into it, but with school i was never able. Well, High School ended 4 years ago, and time has become available to really start looking into this interest. A few weeks ago i sat down and wrote a simulator becaause I wanted to see for myself exactly what is going on when certain conditions are in play. Now, i am interested in what i need to know to make a not a career, but a side-career/hobby or successful BJ playing. Someone with expierence out there... pretend I am your son and you want to pass down you skills to him. In what order of knowledge, know that you have all learnt the hard way, would you pass it down to him.(I.E. you wouldnt have him doing multiplicaton before he knew how to add, or knew what numbers were). What would you have him learn first, next, etc. What would you have him read, know? If you would tell your son that "BJ is the thoughest way to make easy money" and that he shouldnt bother unless he is committed... well... i believe i am committed. Anyway all answers/"good reads" posted will be appreciated.

only play the best conditions & where you have an advantage

Listen to your mother!

Don't waste your time in blackjack. Reason: the best can not play. So, why bother to invest your valuable time in a dead-end skill/profession?

It's just a fact of life. By the time you spend so much time to earn a PhD in blackjack, you'll find out that you can not practice your trade like any other non-bj-PhDs. The casinos just don't want the best to play in their joints. For example, Dr. Thorp'd splent a lot of time to earn his PhD in bj, and he became one of the best. However, he could not practice his blackjack skill because the best just can not play in casinos. Instead of playing bj now, Dr. Thorp plays stock market...where the best is welcome to play.

So my son, if you like to gamble, be a gambler in which... the best is welcome to play. Be a:

1) Daytrader,

2) Poker player,

3) Lawyer (who gambles in courts), or

4) Sportbetter.

I must confess that I would be a lawyer by now if I'd put my valuable time in a law school rather than bj stuff. Hey, some readers may play devil's advocate and may ask: "Hey why are you still wasting time in bj stuff now?" "Why don't you go back to a law school & become a lawyer?" YES, that's what I intend to do...it's better late than never. But, for my son, you don't have to waste several years of your valuable time and find out the hard way (like me).

Best Regard,
Samoht

Get a solid education in a field that interests you. The key to successful and happy employment is doing something you like. Pursue this education to at least the graduate level.

You want a challenge? Try Air Traffic Control. You need only to pass a reasonably difficult test, be physically healthy and be able to maintain you medical certificate once a year. Your employer (the Federal Government), will provide you with substantial income once you reach the journeyman level. As time passes, you will find yourself with 6 weeks vacation, 10 paid Holidays and the opportunity to retire while still relatively young and have a handsome annuity.

Then again, you could piss away your youth thinking you can turn this card counting thing into mega bucks. Ain't gonna happen. You will be handed your ass more than once, and probably nuke your bank as you slowly slink to the elevator to ponder your next adventure.

I'd give you the Wall Street pitch and the savings thing, but I'm not sure your receiver is really turned on. I will tell you this...I am retired, had I not saved a long, long time ago, and planned for the gray hair, I wouldn't be enjoying life half as much as I am. Trust me, unless something tragic strikes you, you too will one day become older and wiser. When you look back I hope you can smile at your accomplishments and will be living well enjoying the grandkids.

There ain't no free lunch! Be smart, don't waste your youth!!

Regards,
Wildcard

Become a member (if your not already) and go through the member only boards reading everything that's said about sizing bets, kelly criteria and ROR. It will lay the foundation for you to completely understand the what and why for what Samoht and Wildcard have said.

If you are going to play blackjack seriously (to make a profit) you must have a sizable bankroll AND be able to be agressive i.e. be able to withstand large negative swings. For 95% of us (probably 99%) that means having an income large enough to resupply the BJ bankroll during down times (otherwise you must reduce your bet size after losses and it will take forever to "come back").

So the first thing you must do is plan! Plan you career! Then focus on your career and make it happen. Then learn BS, HighLow, Indicies, and Cover. :)

Now, i am interested in what i need to know to make a not a career, but a side-career/hobby or successful BJ playing.

He's not asking to advice on being a pro. So quit being so fuddy-duddy.

Now to answer the questions

What would you have him learn first, next, etc.

1)Basic Strategy
2)KO or HiLo

What would you have him read, know?

1) KO Blackjack or Professional BJ
2) Blackjack Attack

Just keep in your original goal in mind: this is a hobby not a job. You might also want to learn other AP strategies: such as VP and poker.

that can do bet sreads, etc, without more bj experience. Have you compared results from your simulator against those on the market? There are lots of programmers on bjmath.com who you could exchange notes with. It would be a good idea to do this before making lots of projections based on the results you obtained.

No, no comparisons yet. I only started the bj sim about 2-3 weeks ago. So i got about another 2-3 weeks of tiny tiny additions(like all those different blackjack variations, and penetration issues), maybe a graphical user interface, and a little bit of code tuning to speed this sim up. Then I will start to do comparisons to make sure my sim is accurate etc.

I'm where you were a year ago. I also am interested in profitable blackjack as a side hobby/something to do on vacation and not a full time job. Blackjack Secrets is an excellent book, just read that and practice every day (I spend about 20 minutes a day practicing).

In the past year I've gone to Atlantic City 6 times in lost a total of $300 (before expenses like hotel and gas). I'm getting better though. Soon I think I'll be able to win money consistently (once I read Blackjack Attack and start varying my bets more).

The only advice that I've learned over the past year is to try and ignore the money aspect of it. On some trips you'll win huge and on some you'll lose huge. Just pretend it's Monopoly money, if you know that you're playing at an advantage that's all you need to keep going.

Actually, considering the awful game selection in AC, a $300 loss is not a bad thing. You would probably be playing a winning game if you were playing some of the better games in Vegas or the southern gaming meccas. The logic is, (depending on your betting unit/bankroll) it might pay off to put out the few extra bucks to fly out to a better game. Although AC is getting a little better (it seems Borgata offering all 6 deck shoes have increased competition a little bit) it is by no means favorable.

Good Luck and keep at em..

D

pretend I am your son and you want to pass down you skills to him. In what order of knowledge, know that you have all learnt the hard way, would you pass it down to him.(I.E. you wouldnt have him doing multiplicaton before he knew how to add, or knew what numbers were). What would you have him learn first, next, etc. What would you have him read, know? If you would tell your son that "BJ is the thoughest way to make easy money"...

Now, i am interested in what i need to know to make a not a career, but a side-career/hobby or successful BJ playing.

He's not asking to advice on being a pro.

And your suggestions are sound & one's that I told my sons when they came of age.

Scroll down the dark green left margin of this board. The glossary is under Miscellaneous. If the term is not in the glossary just post a question.

It'll get answered.

Yeah, the Borgota is all 6 deck shoes. I'm thinking of making it my go to. It has been the Taj because they have $5 tables often and I spread my bets between the table minimum and $60. Thanks for the advice ... hopefully once I get a raise I can afford to invest more in a bankroll which includes plane fare.

alright, i may be new to this shit, but that don't matter cause i'm gonna go straight to ANSWERING your questions. let me tell you what i did because at least that will be HELPFUL advice, and not sound like your grandpappy preaching you shit about "life" (that's something that's way the hell ONLY up to you to figure out anyhow). by the way, i got a real kick out of these people telling you about law school (which some might argue is a BIGGER waste of time).

first things first, stick to the books. these website might "look" inviting with all their technology and software, but the books are where the hardcore pro. learning is done. if that's not what you're into, then by all means just use the software. just remember that they will limit you somewhat as far as a thorough understanding of the sport goes. find your foundation with the books and learn the newest catch phrases, casino info, etc through the web sites and magazines.

1. basic strategy-- this is the first step. this separates you from the rest of the people out there playing bj. fyi, flash cards are awesome: simply glancing at the numbers on the cards over a period of a month is enough for your subconscious to memorize them. then one day you wake up and the numbers "come to you."
2. practice basic strategy-- practice until you KNOW it's become instinctual
3. this is where people might argue. some will say that now is the time to learn how to count. i say now is the time to learn how to tell a cheating dealer from an honest one. i did this via books (particularly a book by cooper and humble called the world's greatest greatest blackjack). also now is time to teach yourself about money management, about emotional control, about spending countless hours without losing your touch or nerve or money. once you start playing, your head will take care of the cards automatically; but you will be in charge of something much more difficult, you emotions, self control, etc.
4. learn how to count. then practice counting. the more time you give yourself, the better you will get to be.
5. make a plan. this is important. remember the whole lawyer lecture: take care of this plan and you're set. what i mean is decide what kind of a player you want to be and always play to that degree. if you're gonna play 2-3 times a year on your vacations to vegas, then you don't have to worry much about concealing you game and limiting your winnings all the time. you don't even have to learn how to count. in this case, simply seeing lots of small cards shoot out of the deck is enough to know to increase bet size on the next round. if, however, you'll be playing for a living, which a good number of people actually do, then you'll need to limit your daily or weekly winnings so as not to tip yourself off to the casinos. make a game plan, be reasonable and realistic, read what people have done and crop some edges to find yourself in this game.
6. remember to have fun, because after all, it's just a game made for fun.

Nice list.

If you're going to do anything but play very occasionally, I'd suggest that another logical step that should be added, up front, after one has read the books, but before one even learns basic strategy, and before ever setting foot in a casino, is to take a hard look at the dollars involved in this game. Expected win rate, standard deviation, Risk of Ruin, and required bankroll (comprising money you can litterally just throw away. I mean, light a match to it and burn it, right before your eyes.)

Casinos are designed to relieve people of their money. They've used psychologists, behavioral scientists, market researchers, graduates of the school of hard knocks, brainwashers, interior designers, booze, food, sex and pseudosex, and an infinite stream of numbers and statistics on losers, losers, and more losers to create a vortex that has sucked an impressive amount of money out of people. This is the machine you are going up against.

So after you know something about the numbers, stop. Consider the risks. Then decide, decide, decide whether you will pursue this avocation.

Things you might be throwing away include a nest egg, (that if developed when you are young, could make you a millionaire before too many years have passed); Might include hundreds or thousands of hours you might end up throwing away if you should quit in the grip of that sinking feeling you get while in a 2 s.d. swing that can wring your guts; (and if you don't know what a 2 s.d. swing is, in terms of dollars cash money - not "Units" - do not play); Might include serious losses in family relationships, if your family (present or future) does not understand what you are doing.

Most people in our society drift into various ways of spending their time and money without thinking about it, without deciding. You see sunburned herds and mobs of them swarming up and down the Strip or through Downtown, a lost, dazed, puzzled look in their eyes, no one appearing to be having fun, scurrying in borderline panic to be pretty to be cool to be smart, to try to look rich or be rich while not having a clue that they are actually just suckers.

At risk of sounding grandpappy-ish:

Learn first, know what you're up against. Then decide. Then, and only then, proceed.

you are wise beyond your years (or perhaps your years are wise beyond you). nevertheless your words describe someone with experience.
i confess, i don't know what this 2 s.d. is, nor your vague "nest-egg." but we're all here to share information and learn. i'm sure you once did not know what a 2 s.d. was, and more importantly, it's major implications (whatever they might be).
i think all your warnings are of paramount importance, especially "If you're going to do anything but play very occasionally." and we all need to think about them over, and over, and over--i'm sure that this is what makes the winners the exceptions to the rules: that one individual who watchers the others walk up and down the strip with god-like eyes.
but enough of this. a few quotes came to mind as i was reading your message. i hope you get a chance to read them (and hopefully reply with more wise thoughts and even practical advice). one thing i keep hearing though, in books, on the net, everywhere: players advising other soon-to-be players that it's a Dangerous game, a dangerous game that they're better off not playing. we play this dangerous game, albeit 'skillfully,' for the same reason everyone else plays unskillfully. ...it's a human thing.

--to conquer without risk is to triumph without glory. (in other words, no risk no progress. optimism and studiousness)
--from the "World's greatest blackjack book":

it's the risk i like about owning a casino. some days you win, other days you win more. -one casino owner to another.

if you can't manage your money and your emotions, you have no business at the table. -nick the greek.

you watch sixteen 10s and what do you get? another day older and deeper in debt. -anonymous.