BJ advantage vs. poker advantage

I've been playing blackjack for almost a year now, learning a KO count to make some money. I'm not making a lot of money though, partly because of my low bank roll and i am being a concervative better to ensure that i don't lose my entire bankroll. Basically that means i'm not betting during the negative counts, and betting less then i might want to when the count gets good. Anyways, i think i'm playing it safe.. but if any of you have comments bout the way i am betting, please let me know. For me, it is partly just learning the game as much as possible and i'm not trying to make a fortune at it.

But my question is this... the advantage i get playing BJ is around 1% to 2% over the house. Even if you have the memory of Rain Man, you are still going to be limited to how much of an advantage you can obtain. However, when you play poker you are playing against other people, who are going to make mistakes as will you. If you become a proficient poker player, can you gain a significant advantage over the other players? I keep thinking to myself that if i became an amazing, or somewhat amazing poker player, i could make more money and have a higher advantage playing poker than i could playing blackjack. It just seems easier taking money from some drunk businessman playing poker than trying to count my cards at blackjack. (Of course, maybe the drunk guy just wants to make you think he's not a proficient player, then he'll wipe you out.. but that's another thing entirely) Does anyone have comments about this subject? I know this is a Blackjack website and i'm sorry for posting this on here, but i think the post relates to blackjack as i'm trying to compare the advantages you can obtain for both games. If anyone has experience with playing poker, please give me some advice on wether or not to pursue Poker. I enjoy blackjack immensly, but i would like to be able to sit at a poker table someday and know i have a good shot at making some money. Thanks for listening to this long post, and any replies would be greatly appreciated. I appologize for the spelling and grammer mistakes.

Impala096

You're far better off learning poker. If you become a solid player you can easily make more money from ploppies in a card room. Start at the lower limits and learn the game. Go to www.twoplustwo , the best site on the net in regards to poker.

If you become a proficient poker player, can you gain a significant advantage over the other players?

If you stick strictly to the low-limit tables then a simple strategy, essentially just playing tight, will get you the money. This is a very good way to build up a reasonable bank for blackjack. You will have much less radical fluctuations, provided you have no ethical problems with taking money off the weak-minded and compulsive.

At higher levels of play, the mathematics becomes more complicated and psychology becomes the dominant factor in the game's resolution. It becomes harder and harder to achieve an acceptable return-you would probably wish to switch back to blackjack at that point.

If you very good. Good enough to beat pros.

The maths in poker is more complex than blackjack, the psychology is more fun, you get more recognition and friends.

I'm curious as to what is meant by the math being more difficult in poker?

of different poker hands against tight, loose, aggressive, timid, bluffing, non- bluffing, short handed and full table games of every limit and combination.

Calculated the ev's, sd's, variance, br requirements, stratgies, optimal game theory bluffing frequencies, etc.

I play poker more regular than blackjack since I have a game in my friend's house but the blackjack game in U.K. is horrible. Which forced me to travel to Eastern Europe in the weekends. South America in the Summers, etc.

I analyse from the stockmarket to the odds of pluto and venus being x light years apart at y frequency. There is very little that I have not been interested.

I would like to learn Texas Hold'em. Can you guys point me in the right direction.

I was at Foxwoods a few weeks ago and I met Phil Helmuth & his buddie, I forget his name, but he's the Asian Poker Champion who wears sun glasses all the time.

For these guys to be millionairs, they sure dress bummy.

LW

Or try twoplustwo, gamblersbookclub.com,rge21.com,etc.

You're probably referring to Scotty Nguyen. Most top poker players I've dress kind of flashy/sleazy in my opinion. Nguyen wears the big gold chains/bracelets. Helmuth seems to go for preposterous silk shirts. I suspect they do that for distraction's sake.

Go to this site. It's the bj21 of the poker world. Malmuth, Sklansky and Zee have written the bibles on hold-em, 7 card stud and Omaha hi-lo (a game you should seriously consider learning, not as glamorous as hold-em but low bank requirements and simple strategy).

Casino poker is beatable but you are going to have to be real good at the game to win anything of significance. Tight play at the low limits will probably make you break even or a small winner at best.
The rake is your biggest enemy at the lower limits and at the higher limits these guys are very knowledgable and tricky. Those drunks you mentioned are very rare nowadays and when they do show up there are plenty of sharks looking for a piece of him.

The average pro makes about 1BB/hr, at least thats the accepted standard and not a rule and thats no bargain considering the swings face.

Home games are where you can make some real money (without as much skill) but you are going to have to play a strong psycological act if you intend to remain welcome in the game for any length of time and that means tight play is out.

like blackjack but don't try to make it your dream occupation. You can get some good books from twoplustwo.com, but poker is a game like the stockmarket, you have to deviate from the books to win. They just get you the basic working knowledge and tactics, after all if everybody plays the same way then they will all buy at the same time or bluff at the same time.

The real stuff is knowing your opponents. You can win with 7-2 offsuit if you know that your mate will fold everytime you raise when he is in last position.

But being able to incorporate visual cues of the other guy's psychology into ev's and sd's accurately is not a common talent.

Also hold'em has many varieties, different limits you play different strategies. Tournament games are very different from limits too. And each suits a different personality unless you're versatile enough to change that much that fast.

Try some cheap tourny games for fun first and you get to learn to play different pace and styles. I recommend Lou Krieger's "hold'em excellence" for begginners.

Everybody hates a winning player,and does not matter how much you make on poker you will not get any recognition in fact they will try to discredit you as much as they can.And in most of the poker pits you have a feeling you are in a Salavation Army hostel.

Just curious, the local casino here (NY) has a weekly limit & no limit holdem tournament. The buy-in is $45 for limit, can I gain playing experience playing these tournaments? Seems like a cheaper way to go, losses wise anyway. Or is tournament play different from regular play so much so that it'll hinder my forward progress. I've played tournament BJ and even though the major difference is in the betting strategy, there are basic strategy changes used in tourney play I would NEVER use in regular play. Is it the same type circumstances in limit poker?

I seriously doubt you have a 1%-2% advantage by holding back your bets in positive situations. Get BJRM and check me out.

In BJ, I think the accepted standard is your average bet per hour. So in theory, if you had the bank roll and casinos never shuffled up or barred you from playing advantageous games, then BJ would be the more lucrative game. Obviously, this isn't the case.

How much you can make at poker is a function of how good a player you can be. As the above post mentioned, the average accepted win rate of professionals is 1-1.5 BB/hr. When you get to the $20 BB games, you're playing at the level of semi-pros. Can you play that well to beat them?

As the above post mentioned, there really aren't a bunch of drunks hanging out to lose their money to you at the tables. And "knowledgeable and tricky" for the higher limit tables is an understatement.

business dress like average joes. It is one of the main reasons why they like being professional gamblers, they don't have to go to work with a shirt and tie every day. By the way, how have u been doing with your blackjack lately? I haven't played at all since i came back to vegas...too busy betting sports...but i will start up again in the spring.

table

In some tournies you can rebuy if you lose all your chips until a time limit or number of times. At the rebuy stages, you get a taste of a ring game. Then you got to change your style when it gets to the knockout stages.

Malmuth + Sklansky specialises in ring games which is more mathematical since you don't have to change style that often. In tournies, psychology is very important and more fun.

It will be good practice anyhow. You might even get lucky and win a bankroll for your poker career. You never know, maybe you have the talent.

Luck,

NA

The cats in the Salvation Army hostel smell better and whine less.

only the losers go around telling badbeat stories. If you can act good, you will remain welcome.

You give me the impression of a blackjack player cursing and shouting when he is losing and getting barred for obnoxious reasons.

You can tell everyone that you play poker but you don't even want to mention when it comes to blackjack.