Best Betting Style for SD

Experienced advantage players, please kindly comment:

I've found a local SD game that usually deals about 5 to 6 hands when it's heads up, sometimes even deeper pen depending on the dealer. Conditions are favorable. I'm using a 1 to 4 spread: betting 1 unit at TC+1; 2 units @ TC+2; 3 units @ TC+3; 4 units @ TC+4.

Anything above TC+4 I spread to 2 hands of 4 units.

What are thoughts on this betting spread style? Is there a way I could tweak this to be even better? I have no idea what the ROR involved with this spread is, but if any of the mathematically inclined want to take a stab at it I'd be most grateful.

Thanks to any and all who may proffer constructive feedback on the above. I greatly appreciate it.

Very Respectfully,
Ian

You did not say whether this was a 3:2 or 6:5 game or what your betting level is. If it is the former and one can spread at least quarters, I am guessing that some here are willing to give a personal look at the game.

adhoc,

Thanks for pointing that out. As a rule I don't play 6:5, ever. So 3:2 here. Please let me know if there's any other info you need to help furnish a more or less accurate response. Out of curiosity adhoc, how do you go about playing SD BJ?

Ian

Ian,

You failed to indicate the rules of the game as well as the count system you're using. The results below are for a H17, DA2 game for a heads up HiLo counter using all indexes and receiving 5 rounds to 1 spot.

You indicated a willingness to spread from 1 to 8 units. You actually suggested 1x1 to 2x4, but I would recommend AGAINST spreading to 2 hands in positive counts when playing heads up.

CVCX shows the optimal spread for a $10K bank (with bets rounded to the nearest minimum bet) is this: bet $29 (1 unit) at 0 & below, bet $58 (2 units) at +1, $87 (3 units) at +2, $145 (5 units) at +3, $174 (6 units) at +4, and $232 (8 units) at +5 & up. This will win $110.28/hr, with a 13.6% RoR.

Note that the results are extremely sensitive to the penetration. You stated that the heads up pen is "5 to 6 hands": 6 rounds is a significantly better game. With 6 rounds heads up, use $36 units and bet 1 unit at +1 & below, 3 units at +2, 4 units at +3, 5 units at +4, 6 units at +5, and 8 units at +6 & up. This will win $173.26/hr, with a 13.0% RoR.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

My post was meant to have a humorous undertone. The game you describe will not last. Get it while you can. I like Dog Hand's suggestions. Spreading to two hands will get you unwanted attention. If you can get a table to yourself, try playing two hands from the start to see what happens.

I know better. I guess I was just not aggressive enough with the G's.

If you spread 1-8 heads up it will take about 10 minutes for them to figure out what you're up to. If you want to be welcomed back I would suggest a more modest spread with cover bets and camouflage. Just remember, 99.99% of casinos don't want anyone with any kind of advantage playing in their house. Can you make more money in 1 or 2 sessions betting balls to the wall or in 100 sessions flying under the radar?

Thank you Dog Hand, truly. Your response was very enlightening and educational. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again! Have a great weekend.

Ian

If you want to be welcomed back I would suggest a more modest spread with cover bets and camouflage.

First off, I don't think the poster explained what amounts he's betting in this game. 2nd, with 5 or 6 rounds headsup this game is marginal, at best.

If he's playing a marginal game with low stakes and playing with cover he's giving up all almost all of his EV. If he's doing any tipping at all we can be safe to assume he's giving away all of it!

My philosophy of SD is pretty simple. You play it quick, hard and give away nothing! If I can't get a minimum of 7rds, I don't play it. Play only one spot and use a very "healthy" spread...by that I mean more than 1-8! If you HAVE to play a SD game with 5 rds heads up, then two spots would probably be best. Again, if you HAVE to.

Regards,
PM

"with 5 or 6 rounds headsup this game is marginal, at best."

That's not a marginal game, in fact it's pretty good. The poster said conditions are favorable and sometimes even deeper penetration, which would make it an excellent game. Even if you're playing low stakes you don't want to rub it in their face that you're counting cards. Any pit boss sees a counter spreading 1-8 in a single deck game will almost certainly back you off. Just my opinion and I'm not trying to knock your style of play. If you are lucky enough to find a casino that let's counters run amuck, then bet as much as you're comfortable with. Just don't be surprised when you get a tap on the shoulder.

By the way Ian, make sure that you're not getting the preferential shuffle. This is when they keep dealing after a bunch of face cards come out but shuffle up after small cards have been played. It would be better to always get 5 rounds than to get 7 rounds only when the house has the edge.

"with 5 or 6 rounds headsup this game is marginal, at best." (My quote)

That's not a marginal game, in fact it's pretty good. The poster said conditions are favorable and sometimes even deeper penetration, which would make it an excellent game. Even if you're playing low stakes you don't want to rub it in their face that you're counting cards. Any pit boss sees a counter spreading 1-8 in a single deck game will almost certainly back you off. Just my opinion and I'm not trying to knock your style of play. If you are lucky enough to find a casino that let's counters run amuck, then bet as much as you're comfortable with. Just don't be surprised when you get a tap on the shoulder. (Your quote)

You can read this yourself if you just CLICK on it to your left, Single Deck Game Selection. The master of single deck blackjack...LVBear states:

"5 rounds -- a poor game. If you are faced with this game, play two hands. You will normally get 4 rounds to 2 spots under Ro6, which is playable. You can drop to one hand in negative decks. You may get lucky and get 5 rounds to 2 spots, which is an excellent game."

So, if 5 rounds is poor and 6 rounds is "6 rounds -- an acceptable game", it's safe to conclude that 5 or 6 rds would be marginal at best.

I believe, I too, suggested spreading to two spots. And who's rubbing it in their face? I'm just stating a style of play that works for me. Being concerned about a "tap" is the last thing I'm concerned with when I play.
Regards,
PM

Sure 5 rounds is poor compared to 7 but it's still a playable game and definitely not necessary to spread 1-8. You're an experienced player and comfortable with an aggressive betting style. To recommend for a beginning counter to spread 1-8 in a single deck game is, in MY opinion, bad advice. Just because you're not concerned with getting kicked out doesn't mean Ian shouldn't be. I agree that 4 rounds to 2 spots would be much better but this could also draw unwanted attention, especially dropping to 1 hand on negative counts. The goal shouldn't be to win as much money as quickly as possible, but to be welcome back again and again to an advantageous situation.

Running the same game as Dog Hand but with a 1 to 4 spread gives the following for 5 rounds: Bet $36 at TC 0 and below, $48 at +1, $100 at +2, $137 at +3, and $144 at +4 and above. This returns a Score of 67.2, a WinRate of $67.78 per hour, and a 13.7% RoR. I don't doubt LVBear's expertise but this is still a decent game. I think Schlesinger once said the minimum acceptable Score is about 50. That would make this game very playable.

For 6 rounds bet $46 at 0 and below, $48 at +1, $105 at +2, $137 at +3, $181 at +4, and $184 at +5 and above... Score is 112.41, WinRate is $113.12, and RoR is 13.6%... an excellent game!

My suggestion to Ian would be to get comfortable with his game and develop some sort of act before spreading to 2 hands or 8 units. Also watch out for the dreaded preferential shuffle.

Running the same game as Dog Hand but with a 1 to 4 spread gives the following for 5 rounds: Bet $36 at TC 0 and below, $48 at +1, $100 at +2, $137 at +3, and $144 at +4 and above. This returns a Score of 67.2, a WinRate of $67.78 per hour, and a 13.7% RoR. I don't doubt LVBear's expertise but this is still a decent game. I think Schlesinger once said the minimum acceptable Score is about 50. That would make this game very playable.

For 6 rounds bet $46 at 0 and below, $48 at +1, $105 at +2, $137 at +3, $181 at +4, and $184 at +5 and above... Score is 112.41, WinRate is $113.12, and RoR is 13.6%... an excellent game!

We can look at books and come up with all kinds of positive scenarios. In the real world, it just doesn't work that easily. For instance, you won't be betting $137 at +3...$140, maybe. You're getting theoretical information at best. The same token, with jumps in bets like you show above in a joint that only allows 5 rounds, how long are you planning on being on the table, anyway? Single deck canNOT be played very long without ramifications.

That being the case...you have to play a different way...should you plan on FAST approach (which is recommended) to the game and if you're not going to play it long, you play it "hard". Why NOT go at it in a way that will make your time at the table worthwhile? By that I mean a strong betspread that is disguised but in the end way better than 1-8. Play strong and correct, without cover. If you're supposed to split tens, then split them!

Since you know you won't be playing this game long that's why penetration is so important. You pick a "good" game from the beginning or keep looking until you find one. Bear isn't given his advice because he "thinks" it's the best way to play single deck. He knows exactly what he's talking about. Personally, I'll follow Bear's advice on single deck before I will anyone else's...including the advice given in BJ Attack.

Trust me, in the real world your game above is NOT a great game. If you're a nickel player, you can play this game for a little while longer without concerning yourself with anything; however, you start pushing out blacks and things will change quick. You best be ready for it when it does. Truth is, forget this game...if you HAVE to play it, play 2 spots.

Regards,
PM