In playing blackjack at a Las Vegas casino that hits on a soft 17, how should one change their basic strategy play?
...It has superb basic strategy for all rules in Appendix B. I've been using it for a number of months and am very pleased. It is a bit more aggressive and a bit more complicated than most BS tables, but so far, so good.
Cobbson
You should add 3 plays.
Double 11 v A
Double A7 v 2
Double A8 v 6
This is for a no surrender game.
Why would surrender affect any of these added plays?
It doesn't so don't worry about it. But I would also add A8v5 to the dbl list and 99v7 to the split list. Also don't split 22 or 33 vs 2 or 3.
"Why would surrender affect any of these added plays?"
It doesn't, but that wasn't the question you asked. You asked how BS changed. BS for surrender changes also when the dealer hits soft 17. Gman simply didn't discuss those plays in his answer to you.
Don
I was just wondering why he added the comment about surrender.
"But I would also add A8v5 to the dbl list and 99v7 to the split list."
Well, you can add them to YOUR list, but unfortunately, they would both be wrong BS plays!
"Also don't split 22 or 33 vs 2 or 3."
Huh?? These plays have nothing to do with S17 or H17. You seem confused.
Don
I was trying to figure out why on earth splitting 9,9 would be basic strategy under any set of rules.
If you had specify "Late Surrender game" in your question, I would have add two more plays:
LS 15 v A
LS 17 v A
If I had not specify that my answer was for "no surrender game" you would have seen a few half-smart know it all on this site telling you I was wrong because of the possibility of a surrender game.
Get it ?
I am sorry that I did not give the complete information about the blackjack rules that will be at the casino.
The complete rules are:
*Hits on soft 17
*Six (6) deck from a show
*Late surrender
*Allows doubling after splitting
*Resplitting of all values except aces
Now may I ask the same questions again:
How should one change their basic strategy play when the card true count is close zero (0)?
Binenbaum,
You appear to understand that the correct basic strategy changes depending on the house rules. To answer your question, though, I need additional information.
For example, if "your" Basic Strategy is for a 1D, S17, D10, NoDAS, NoLS game, then the list of changes to obtain the correct B.S. for a 6D, H17, DA2, DAS, LS game would be quite long. On the other hand, if "your" B.S. is for a 6D, S17, DA2, DAS, LS game, then the list of changes would be quite short.
Which "flavor" of B.S. do you know?
Finally, I'm a bit confused by your query:
How should one change their (sic) basic strategy play when the card true count is close zero (0)?
If you're counting cards, then your CC system tells you what changes to make, so strictly speaking you aren't playing B.S. at all. If you sometimes stand on 16 vs. X and other times hit it, that's because your CC system tells you to stand when the TC exceeds the index (0, for most systems), and to hit otherwise.
Here is the complete two-card Composition-Dependent B.S. for the rules you specified, as generated by the following program:
Blackjack Game and Basic Strategy Calculator
Version 5.0
Copyright (C) 1999, 2001, 2002 Eric Farmer (erfarmer@comcast.net)
The program is available as a free download from the link shown at the bottom of this post.
.
6 decks, H17, DOA, DAS, surrender
Hard | Dealer's up card
hand | 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 A
-----------------------------------------------------------
10- 9 | S S S S S S S S S S
|
10- 8 | S S S S S S S s s s
|
10- 7 | s s s s s s s s s rs
9- 8 | s s s s s s s s s rs
|
10- 6 | s s s s s h h rh rh rh
9- 7 | s s s s s h h rh rh rh
|
10- 5 | s s s s s h h h rh rh
9- 6 | s s s s s h h h rh rh
8- 7 | s s s s s h h h h rh
|
10- 4 | s s s s s h h h h h
9- 5 | s s s s s h h h h h
8- 6 | s s s s s h h h h h
|
10- 3 | s s s s s h h h h h
9- 4 | s s s s s h h h h h
8- 5 | s s s s s h h h h h
7- 6 | s s s s s h h h h h
|
10- 2 | h h s s s h h h h h
9- 3 | h h s s s h h h h h
8- 4 | h h s s s h h h h h
7- 5 | h h s s s h h h h h
|
9- 2 | DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH
8- 3 | DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH
7- 4 | DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH
6- 5 | DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH
|
8- 2 | DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH H H
7- 3 | DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH H H
6- 4 | DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH H H
|
7- 2 | H DH DH DH DH H H h h h
6- 3 | H DH DH DH DH H H h h h
5- 4 | H DH DH DH DH H H h h h
|
6- 2 | h H H H H H h h h h
5- 3 | h H H H H H h h h h
|
5- 2 | h h h H H h h h h h
4- 3 | h h h H H h h h h h
|
4- 2 | h h h h H h h h h h
|
3- 2 | h h h h H h h h h h
|
Soft | Dealer's up card
hand | 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 A
-----------------------------------------------------------
A- 9 | S S S S S S S S S S
A- 8 | S S S S DS S S S S S
A- 7 | DS DS DS DS DS S S h h h
A- 6 | h DH DH DH DH H h h h h
A- 5 | h H DH DH DH h h h h h
A- 4 | h H DH DH DH H h h h h
A- 3 | H H H DH DH H H h h h
A- 2 | H H H DH DH H H h h h
Pair | Dealer's up card
hand | 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 A
-----------------------------------------------------------
A- A | PH PH PH PH PDH PH PH Ph Ph Ph
10-10 | S S S S S S S S S S
9- 9 | PS PS PS PS PS S PS ps s s
8- 8 | Ps Ps Ps Ps Ps Ph ph prh prh rph
7- 7 | ps ps Ps Ps Ps ph h h h h
6- 6 | ph ph Ps Ps Ps h h h h h
5- 5 | DH DH DH DH DH DH DH DH H H
4- 4 | h H H PH PH H h h h h
3- 3 | ph ph Ph Ph PH ph h h h h
2- 2 | ph ph Ph Ph PH Ph h h h h
-----------------------------------------------------------
S = Stand
H = Hit
D = Double down
P = Split
R = Surrender
Uppercase indicates action is favorable for the player
Lowercase indicates action is favorable for the house
When more than one option is listed, options are listed from left to right in order of preference.
Up |
card | Overall expected value (%)
---------------------------------
2 | 9.242871638
3 | 12.611923900
4 | 16.319093884
5 | 20.348654636
6 | 23.870911147
7 | 14.459219722
8 | 5.756687461
9 | -4.087414307
10 | -17.101044658
A | -36.974085204
---------------------------------
Total | -0.527408904
Up | Probability of outcome of dealer's hand
card | Bust | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 |Blackjack
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 | 0.35666 | 0.13007 | 0.13598 | 0.13161 | 0.12566 | 0.12002 | 0.00000
3 | 0.37696 | 0.12590 | 0.13193 | 0.12666 | 0.12218 | 0.11637 | 0.00000
4 | 0.39847 | 0.12246 | 0.12541 | 0.12262 | 0.11783 | 0.11322 | 0.00000
5 | 0.41963 | 0.11809 | 0.12304 | 0.11822 | 0.11243 | 0.10859 | 0.00000
6 | 0.43926 | 0.11506 | 0.11457 | 0.11504 | 0.11018 | 0.10588 | 0.00000
7 | 0.26194 | 0.36921 | 0.13793 | 0.07843 | 0.07868 | 0.07382 | 0.00000
8 | 0.24369 | 0.12894 | 0.35995 | 0.12872 | 0.06922 | 0.06947 | 0.00000
9 | 0.22924 | 0.12031 | 0.11735 | 0.35185 | 0.12037 | 0.06088 | 0.00000
10 | 0.21247 | 0.11191 | 0.11167 | 0.11194 | 0.34001 | 0.03482 | 0.07717
A | 0.13915 | 0.05727 | 0.14282 | 0.14294 | 0.14328 | 0.06586 | 0.30868
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total | 0.28576 | 0.13346 | 0.14120 | 0.13568 | 0.18153 | 0.07487 | 0.04749
It's counter's basic strategy in case you are interested.
No; these plays as you know concern doubling after splitting. But it is bad casinology to always play according to the book. Further by doubling A8v5 with a minimum bet, you give up very little. Aren't you going to put out the extra money when you make a large bet? Sure. Same thing about 99v7. What's the problem then, Don?
You wrote: "What's the problem then, Don?"
I refer you back to the original post, "Basic Strategy -- hit soft 17." The poster wrote, "In playing blackjack at a Las Vegas casino that hits on a soft 17, how should one change their basic strategy play?"
You will note, twice, the mention of "basic strategy." So, the answers that were furnished gave the changes in basic strategy from the S17 to the H17 game. Your answer addressed a different issue, that's all.
I prefer to answer the question as it is asked. :-)
Don
Yeah, I got off on a tangent again. I've been doing it a lot lately. My apology.
