backline splits , surrender or split for this case ?

according to wongs basic blackjack

there are sacrifice splits which suggest player to split most hands if the backline is larger than original bet 700% which bet by the same player

wongs said this is also suitable for hole card game , which dealer picture uphand still have chance for a bj

then how about early surrender against ten rule for hole card game , according to bs for this game , 7 7 and 8 8 vs is a surrender , so if i bet 700% at backline , should I split or surredner (Double allow after split )

also , I want to know , stanford wong only mention 700% is suitable for all conditional split ,how about below 700%? for example from 100% to 600% , what split stragery should be changed ? anyone can provide more details ??

sorry typo , i mean no hole card game

Im not sure whether I understood your question because you don't mention that the person you bet on is an associate.This technique is known under the name of caller-rider-splits.
No casino will allow you to backline yourself and betting on strangers doesn't make sense because you have no control of the decision.You really need an associate with whom you share the bankroll.
I have some experience with the caller-rider technique but I abandoned it because it caused a lot of heat.
In order to establish the correct strategy you need to know the ev for the various decisions.
Let's see: 14v10 = -51% surrender -50%
7v10 = -37% 2*-37%=-74% So the caller loses 24% by splitting but the rider wins back 13%. So if the rider bets at least twice as much as the caller, splitting is better than surrender.
8/8v10 is a clear caller-rider split rather than surrender.

Francis Salmon

thanks , what i mean is backline myself

I found some casino allow this

pls provide full details on all % of self backline

and how house edge can be cut ?

From my previous post you can see how to figure out the right decision in each case.You should be able to find the ev for the various situations on internet or in literature.
Frankly, I'm afraid that they will stop you backlining yourself as soon as they realize what you're doing.

Francis Salmon

honey B,

As Francis Salmon correctly indicates, once the casino decides that you're gaining an advantage by backlining yourself, they'll put a stop to the practice.

Can't you find someone to go with you to the casino? Have him be the front player and you be the backliner. You can either pretend to be unaffiliated (though I can't imagine the casino would fall for that for very long, either: "Gee, Tom, did you ever notice that Honey B always seems to be backlining that same guy?") or you can pretend that you're showing your friend how to play BJ. This setup might work better, because then you can tell your friend how to play his hands as well. Just be sure you pick someone who can act stupid ;-)

This will prevent the "backlining yourself" situation.

Dog Hand

yes find one more person is ok for casino

but it take a cost for his salary

it need to count how much u bet per day in order to compensate it

so any one know how many house edge has been deduced by this method ??

I did extensive studies on this a while back and found out that even with a very aggressive caller-rider ratio (1:40!) the cut in house edge would hardly exceed 0.1%.
Note also that the better the rules the smaller the scope for improvement by caller-rider splits.
With ES10 (that seems to be your case) the obtainable gain by this technique is so small that it's not really worth the additional heat.

Francis Salmon

Crowded tables of course are anathema to Card Counters, BUT, if two friends approach a table with just one spot - then it is perfectly commonplace for one to backline the other. They can and should converse as friends would with the backliner of course betting substantially more than the seated player.

They will stop you, but the gain is so very trivial, you will annoy the pit, and the increased exposure to betting more on one hand per round will work to increase your fluctuations.

Doing what you are thinking of will create a higher Risk of Ruin than you already have.

R.O.R. is the single most important concept for new players to thoroughly grasp.

I kid you not.

What is the extra edge achievable by using optimal sacrificial splits strategy with big spread in a full early surrender game (including ESA)?

from wongs basic blackjack it seems we can gain 0.2% at least

I guess with ESA you already have the edge from the top, so I wouldn't fool around with that technique.Anyway the gain will only be marginal.Lets illustrate this with an example for ENHC:
8/8v Ace is a very bad hand with an ev of -66%.Splitting the 8s will give you two hands of -45%.So the rider will gain 21% (66-45) on his bet whereas the caller will give away 24%(90-66) of his minimum bet.
With a big spread this is a quite impressive 20% gain.
But now with ES you cannot compare with the lousy -66% for hitting, you have to compare with the -50% for surrender.So you gain only 5%.
Since defensive splits against 10 or Ace are the most interesting situations for this technique, the surrender rule takes away most of its possible benefit.

Francis Salmon