Anyone have feedback on Uston Simple Plus-Minus system?

Hi group,

beginning and aspiring counter - researched and used KO at 8-deck AC games yet noticing that with an IRC of -28, it takes a long time for shoe to turn positive, if ever.

Ran into the Simple Plus-Minus from Ustons' Million Dollar Blackjack and it seems pretty straight forward, with minor rule variations and no true count conversion.

I'm wondering if anyone has any feedback with respect to this count. All criticism would be appreciated...

Thanks,

M.

where is the groaner of the month when you need it?

Really? Good one bud

The test of a great pun is how many groans it engenders.

All counting systems use variations of the same methods to get to roughly the same place.

The best advice is to use the best one YOU can handle because too-complicated systems cause errors which can reduce or eliminate any advantage otherwise gained.

There are sites which will advise you on which system is best for you based on your level of interest and talent.

Thanks Coot,

I appreciate it - I guess I was looking more for past poster's past experiences with the count, gains, losses, etc.

I found very little on Uston's Simple +/- count, mostly on Uston's APC. But thanks anyway.

:)

Kenny was renown for his prowess with Revere PC. He assembled other count systems as an experimental exercise but he never really figured out how to dodge the casino heat.

Basically this is a rather weak system, but like any simple Level One Count it is sufficient for low stakes recreational players.

Tks Flash,

Exactly what I'm going for at this point in my game. Low stakes as I'm trying to build a bankroll. Once I get to a descent amount, then I plan on upping the system I use to include a True Count conversion for accuracy (by the way, any suggestions on that?) as well as my unit size so I could try to put some more money on the table. But until I reach the required BR, I think I will stick to low stakes KO or Uston +/-.

Thoughts?

Tks,

M.

You should learn one system and stick with it. High-low is easy to use and is used by many counters. 2-6 is plus 1, 7,8,9 is 0, and all 10's and Aces are minus 1.

Low stakes play will probably earn you $5 or $10 an hour.

You'll do better delivering pizzas.

Even if you have a skillful winning game AND good playing conditions

you will need to spend a decade or two to accrue a decent bankroll.

That is, if you do not first go belly-up at low stakes.

You are imagining that card counting is a sure way to 'make money'

That is simply false.

A skilled Card Counter will win somewhere between 60% and 70% of his sessions with net wins somewhat larger than average net losses.

I have been a full-time Pro player for > 18 yrs.

There are (estimated) < 200 Pro players in the U S A

Unless you were replying to the other poster, not me. I was only advocating high low as a counting system. I agree with everything you just wrote and I applaud you if you have been able to make a living playing BJ for over 18 years.

How many miles do you travel in a year?
How many places have you banned from/identified as a counter?
Are you married?
Have you ever had a year when you have lost money or made less than your living (not to mention travel) expenses?
How many different cities and casinos do you play in a year?

It would be fascinating if you could share some of this information.

How many miles do you travel in a year?

That varies considerably. I travel from the East Coast to NV and MS a good deal, and those venues require air miles. Many other destinations are reached via "white-line fever" Let it suffice to say that I enjoy a lot of free airline trips, especially as I use an Airline Credit Card to earn additional free trips. I fly 2 or 3 round trips monthly.

How many places have you banned from/identified as a counter?

The number of "back-offs" at casinos is huge. Trespasses are far more significant. I have been trespassed at only two joints in Las Vegas and one in Connecticut.

Are you married?

Yes. Current spouse of 4 years is an ardent poker player. Not a Pro player by any stretch of the imagination, but has been playing a pretty good game in the last 2 years, showing a slim net profit. I play poker as well but my skill level is not high enough to play professionally.

Have you ever had a year when you have lost money or made less than your
living (not to mention travel) expenses?

Yes, in the last 18 years I had 3 years where the casinos kicked my skinny butt.
I have averaged $46.5K per annum (losing years included)
The income has ranged widely though, as one might expect.
My worst year had me losing 29K and my best year had me winning 81K
That year exhibited the most extreme swing that I experienced. It was a year in which I made 240K [at one casino that offered a fine shoe game and (back then) was not 86'ing hardly anyone], and then lost back most of it in Las Vegas - due to my overly optimistic sub-optimal "over-betting". Almost needless to say, that was early in my career.

Incidentally, while I earned more when legitimately employed prior to 1992, I have never had regrets re: my "turning pro". For me it is NOT primarily "about the money" It is about having the freedom to live completely as I see fit. That makes me "self-employed" without all of the obligations, stress, and demands that are normally part and parcel of working for one's self. In a sense, I live the secretive life of an "outlaw", but there is nothing to the romanticized picture of the outlaw life as portrayed in movies and novels.

I enjoy tutoring (gratis) highly motivated / smart players, in the finer points of playing blackjack advantageously.

How many different cities and casinos do you play in a year?

That varies a lot but in recent years my action has mostly been in New Jersey, Nevada, and Mississippi, in that order. How many casinos is a difficult question to answer, as the majority of my play is currently limited to about five properties that receive about 90% of my play; but over time that always changes due to numerous factors, e.g. with Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Delaware all set to offer Blackjack later this year that will alter my schedule and itineraries. If I answer by including ALL of the "stores" in which I risked any money at all, I played in approx. 20 casinos last year.

Any other questions ?

Thanks to everyone for their posts -- extremely informative. Flash, thanks for your incredible input as well as all the "data" you provided.

I originally began studying the Hi-Lo but I must admit I was intimidated by all the conversions, estimation of discard tray, and indices -- was reading D.S. Illustrious 18 and S.Wong books too...

A lot to handle for a beginner. I've used KO for a short period, as I was attracted to no True Count conversion. As you mentioned, not made much money (pizza delivery is about right) but it did instill some confidence in me that a count could indeed be kept with real casino conditions and distractions.

Just had one trip last week and tried Uston Simple +/-, also attracted by no true count conversion, and I was able to put a little more money on the table. Made a little more, but I attribute it to lesser accuracy and more volatility than KO. But, once again, it's fortifying my confidence at the tables and I do believe that sooner than later, I will be comfortable enough to try converting counts and using play variations from the hi-Lo count.

Thanks guys!!

Thank you for your responses. Based on other posts here (not by you), I would have thought that you had to travel internationally to play as a full-time pro. I'm surprised you have found playable games in NJ (presumably in AC). I am also on the East Coast and mainly play in CT in one casino and travel to LV about every 8 months. It would be great to meet up with you but not sure how to do it without publicly giving out our contact info. I have a lot of respect for what you have done. I just wish it was as easy as the portrayed in the movie 21.

I am particularly interested in your 3 losing years. I have a few questions relating to those particular years. I was going to email them to you but thought perhaps this info would be useful to others here as well.

Did you play as many hours in those 3 losing years as in the winning years on average? And what is your average hours played per year? Where there any 'special' circumstances that contributed heavily towards losses in those years?

As I am sure you are aware, I have yet to have a losing year #or really even come close# in my brief 6 year career. #lucky I guess# The thought of being in the red after a whole year is troubling to me. A couple years ago it would have wiped me out completely and probably ended my BJ career. I am now at a point that I would be able to sustain such a year, but needless to say the thought of such is still disturbing.

I too wish to thank you for your frankness and willingness to share your experiences. Very useful to me and many other.

in the last 18 years I had 3 years where the casinos kicked my skinny butt.
I have averaged $46.5K per annum (losing years included)

A few years ago (on Green Chip) you posted about being a lifetime loser due to your overbetting streak. You might have recovered a small profit since then. But now you claim to have won almost a million lifetime. Something is fishy.