Any cardcounter who thinks their career is on hold

Is directed to read the recent threads here on the Griffin Agency and how the requirements for privacy act notification apply to casinos, and how casinos are not only required to notify you that they distribute information generally, but are as required as is any other financial institution to notify you that "negative financial" information about you has been distributed, and to who, each time such information is distributed.

Failure to notify a person that you have distributed negative financial information about them, except as it relates to a bonifide investigation for a felony charge that is under court seal to aid criminal investigation (and even then you still have, despite the recent US Patriot Act, right to be notified of such), and to list all who have been given such information, is subject to the same penalty as failure or refusal to process a CTR. Cardcountr and others have done well in related research. Follow the links. Don't wuss out the way that people do in regard to Equifax and Trans Global doing similar with credit information: falling for sales pitches to subscribe to their reports on YOUR credit information!

Those reports on your playing activity are clearly "negative financial" information and your playing activities are legally the same as you making a stock trade at your local broker. The information distributed by Griffin etc., without notifying you of that report and its distribution, and GIVING YOU THE RIGHT TO CHALLENGE IT, is the same as your broker distributing a negative report on your trading success without notifying you!

What recourse?

If you have been barred someplace and all but know for a fact that you are in the book, how do you procede? Hire a lawyer?

Not sure what anyone can do about it.

"evryone" - joint or class-action as I. Nelson Rose has suggested FOR YEARS. The dilemna is that such agressive/coordinated/financed player legal action could make the over-all playing conditions worse, not better. 50 players contributing $2500 to start and a call for addt'l $2500, $250k total should suffice, but at what value. G

Just file a complaint with the FDIC, US Treasury Department, and specificially the controller of the currency, office of consumer complaints. Jump whenever you see the Griffin Book out or have any backoff at a place where you have not played. Follow the cfr listed problem procedures. Once again, it is circulation of a complaint about your personal financial transactions, without giving you any proper specific, general prior notice that your information might be circulated does not count under the regs cardkountr dug out for us, notice that such information would be distributed.

you are going for direct recoveries from the civil lawsuit process. If you are trying to destroy Griffin, being part of the listed complaintants will do that job quite well.

If you start the process either way, in practical terms you will be in the same place, as Griffin deals with civil and criminal charges and is no doubt in bankruptcy while such issues are pending. That is the certain result of starting your complaint, once enough complaints are on file.

Your recoveries are not going to be the issue, if you are able to play a winning game.

. . .by applying for and receiving casino credit, and then when you get the boot and they yank your credit with notice to Central based on Griffith......Waala! No need to worry about symantics.

Buick

Suppose we did get rid of Griffin?

As I read this thread I was reminded how Uston got blamed for changing the AC game from 4 to 8 decks (and other changes) when he sued them to allow Counters. I realize some believe the changes were to be made anyway and Uston was a convenient excuse -- BUT ...

Just a quick thought ...

Is there any topic on which you might hesitate to offer an opinion? Just what is the outer limit of your arrogance?

... when Forbes first trashed me in the '95 5 page story, I started calling top firms to represent me in a suit - each of them would go like this - "You're talking about FORBES, they'll blitzkreig you, it'll cost you millions in attorney fees, MILLIONS!" and I'd say, "well I'm only budgeted for $200k on this," and they'd say "THAT'LL DO!"

I wasn't thinking $$recoveries because PROVING damages would be tough. I was responding to the original poster who was wondering if something could be done, to get removed from the book - but I lapsed into the whole legal issue of barring. Perhaps your approach, combined with proper legal "notice and demand" to Griffin and cc: relevant govt-agency(s), could be such a removal tool. Quite ingenious, perhaps. G

without Griffin. They would simply save the money they now waste. They can count down a deck and kick out counters just as easily themselves.

...to be able to serve the notice. Clark's got a strong angle. G

that Hyland tried, without success, to go after them (casinos and Griffin) on the credit reporting angle. Maybe someone has more information about the legal action.

These regs are within the context of reporting on financial transactions in general, which requires that the player grant that his wagering is a financial transaction. To do this is an admission of the other agencies having a say-so including wanting player diaries and the like. So it MAY have been better for this, and other larger, TEAM venture(s) to blunt their challenge to avoid having to have the IRS in on team meetings and planning sessions in a manner similar to the way the IRS is now in the video surveilence rooms at the Las Vegas Horseshoe.

That is the possibility I give.

By pressing the credit information reporting angle they were granting that casino blackjack playing was a financial, and NOT recreational, activity and that this would impead other claims.