Any alternatives to a big bankroll to win big at BlackJack?

Hi everyone,

I read on another prominent blackjack website that having a bankroll of 3000 $, while counting, will get you roughly 40-50 $ an hour, considering the roller coaster ride of winning and losing. Is there an alternative to this? I mean, this seems quite discouraging to me, considering I don't have 3000$ just lying around. I understand the risk of ruin can be high with a lower bankroll, but what do you guys do? Do you have have any alternatives to counting and/or a lower bankroll? My budget right now is at most 100-200$. Tables at my casino seem to be only offering 15$ minimum bets everytime I go (They claim to have 5-10$ tables, but I've never seen them).

I should mention that I know basic strategy and won 65$ with it, but at another time, lost 140$ (Never play when you're emotional).

I'm afraid this issue is why I'm slowly putting BJ on the back burner. despite my reluctance to do so. :(

Any advice?

All replies are welcomed.

Victor*

To win big you have to be able to bet big. You're not even in a position to bet small. Forget blackjack until you have more money.

Your best shot to get rich quick with that amount of money is to bet it all on one number at one shot at single zero Roulette....you'll have a 1:37 chance of turning your $100 into $3600.

Threre's absolutely nothing you could do with $100-$200, except maybe lose it on your first 5 hands. Even with the bankroll of $3000 you spoke of you'd have a very high ROR, assuming you're spreading you bets correctly. You obviously have no concept of what a tough grind making money at BJ is. You need to get all of the good books and learn as much as you can. Once you get a starting bankroll of $5000, then you can start out at $5 tables. That's assuming you dedicated the time to master a counting system.

On a side note, if all you know is basic strategy then the size of your bankroll is a moot point, because you're a sure loser in the long run.

MC

The low (no bankroll) question brought to mind what the few friends of mine who know I count think. I think it applies to anyone who has never gone through this grind but heard a little about it.
They are under the opinion that every time we sit at a table we win. It is a long time ago, but I think in one of Ken Uston's books, he said something like you should be a winner in 55% of your sessions.
I remember going to a convention in Vegas with a friend who knew I counted and his amazement when I lost a few thousand in a short period of time with him watching. To this day he thinks I am full of it.
To make money in this game without a substaintial bankroll can be done only by risking your freedom, by cheating, as far I as know. Very negative EV.
While you are saving up a bankroll buy some books, practice on your computer and prepare yourself.

Trying to maintain a $50-00 an hr win rate on a BR or $3000 is just wishful thinking and self deception.I agree with all the other posters, this game is not for you, not yet at least until you come down to earth. To bet and spread correctly in order for you to hvae an win rate of $50.00 per hr, your $3000 BR could disappear in one short session.
However, don't be discourage, spend the money you have on some good books and software ,work hard and save and SAVE. There is no other way you have got to have money to make money. It is a hard grind all the way. Good luck.

Buccaneer

"I read on another prominent blackjack website that having a bankroll of 3000 $, while counting, will get you roughly 40-50 $ an hour,"

Choosing the right games, plus adding a "zero" to your bankroll ($30000) and you can make $50 per hour. Is it possible that all this is a typo between $3000 and $30000 ?

I, too, am a low roller that usually makes the trip with $300+ to the local casinos. I don't have a big bankroll so I have to play an alternative strategy.

I go for broke with whatever my bankroll is! By that, I mean, that when the count says to play so much, I do. If, and when, I run out of money, I'm done...for THAT trip. Fortunately, I win most of the times.

It would be a luxury to have a bankroll so that when the conditions are favorable and the count high, you can keep playing even if you're losing. I plan for that day, but for now, I have to play within my means. At no time do I EVER play with money allocated for my family.

Basic strategy alone won't get you the bucks...you have to get an advantage.

Good Luck

You're not going to make $50/hr off of $3000. Don't bother quoting stats from sims or books, you simply can't make a good living off of a 3K investment.

To play for big moiney on a regular basis with today's playing conditions would not last for a long period of time. Between massive surveillance and communications of every variety spotlighting all black chippers an higher it becomes very difficult to maintain longevity for long. Those of us who live in LV and can wear disguises and already know what we are doing can pick our spots. but starting out again at red chip to accumulate a black chip bankroll appears to be a near impossible task in today's game. You can play at low limits with little problem, but the conditons (crowds, bad rules, trip expenses with no comps )are so bad and so slow that you will make very little.

Twenty years ago and earlier was the time. Today the game is almost dead. ONLY by a unified public information campaign of the 21 players speaking out about the unfair condtions will there ever be even a chance of better conditions.

DD these people truly do not know of the time and effort it takes to get where you are at. How many times did you blow your bankroll? What it does to you mentally and emotionally. Your in a comfort zone now but tell them it was not always so. You had to WORK to get where you are at. I understand they want to win but it is just not that easy. Most so called advantage players should forget about ROR and just play. What should a bankroll be be? How much can you afford to put at risk this weekend and still live comfortably. When I say less than 2% or 3% of advantage players make money (their sole means of support) you know it is true. The truth is all these others players who think they play with an advantage really help you and ?? stay under the radar, at least for a while. Jeeze when I think back...

for a pro is about the size of his expected annual income. This is too play conservative and actually take out winnings to live on. And this may even be optimistic.

Take the money you have and buy some classics to start learning the game (Professional Blackjack, Blackjack Wisdom, Blackjack Attack, etc.). Then start saving. Fill the time between now and the accumulation of a red chip BR with studies. If you have the discipline to read, practice and save for a year or so, then you might be ready to start playing casino blackjack for fun.

HJ

I was faced with almost the same problem. I tried wonging an 8 deck game as a solution and lost my BR for that trip.

Here's what you do: Take that $200 you have and play blackjack online. Play for the bonuses. This can make you close to $2k these days. Still not enough but at least it's a start. I was bummed when I found out what kind of bankroll I needed to get where I want to get, so I started playing online, and in that timeframe learned a more powerful system (Halves). Two months later I'm still working on the BR.

When I first heard about card counting in Blackjack I wondered why everyone doesn't do it. Now I know why. It's really an uphill battle the whole way.

I'm a newbie...been counting since only the beginning of this year. I have made two trips (both winners) playing with bankrolls of about $300-400. I realize this is not an adequate bankroll, but at the nickel level it allows me the opportunity to APPLY my practice in the casinos.

I could keep saving and practicing but WHEN do I get to the part of actual play? It may take me a year or two to get a $10,000 bankroll to play with at the nickel level. By then, I may lose interest in the game. ;)

I feel that by playing now, I get some much needed experience. I will keep saving and hopefully win enough to help along the way. Is it foolish to play like I do without an adequate bankroll?

Will read your answer when I return from my Vegas trip...leaving tomorrow ;)

Just keep playing and keep saving money for your bankroll. You will very likely be broke sometimes. Over the longer term all of your little banks will add up to being a big bank and there will be no difference from if you had it all at once. Just keep good records, don't spend your winnings, keep contributing to your bank whether you are winning or losing, and don't start increasing your stakes until you actually have the full liquid bankroll and are playing to a small risk of ruin. When I had a regular job, played for red chips, and could afford only a few hundred at a time I went and played bj on the Mississippi Gulf coast almost every weekend. Use coupons, enter free drawings, play in tournaments, and do what ever else the casino gives you the opportunity to do for positive ev. You may get lucky and experience a windfall that gives you a bankroll much sooner than expected.

I concur. Study the game, save, and see where it leads. There is no greater practice than being at a real table.

HJ

"You may get lucky and experience a windfall that gives you a bankroll much sooner than expected."

I was one of the fortunate ones as DD' and others know. I started with $4500 last January while learning the wonderful world of AP play. I had a 'little' knowledge (read: I didn't have BJRM software) and severely overbet my BR with, fortunately, extremely positive SD results. Today I have read and studied about a dozen books, have BJRM and CVBJ and BJ Counter/Expert (for my Pocket PC). And ,more importantly, I have made over 18X my original BR since then. Besides learning how to count; discipline at game selection and learning the art of being an AP is equally important as everything else others have posted.

Positive SD,

ODAAT

I'm reading Uston's MDB. It says counting cards long term has a 1.5% gain for the action (read bankroll) you bring to the table, but it depends on the spread. MDB says a $10,000 BR has a 40% ROR betting a $100-$1000 spread, but you'll make $500-$700/hr long term. It also says the same BR has a .05% ROR betting a %1-$10 spread but making $5-$7/hr. He goes on to say he and his teams accepted a 5% ROR, I suppose betting a $25-$250 spread and making $75-$125/hr per $10,000 BR -- or $22.50-37.50.

trufaux