Advice on what count to Wong In at

Hi Everyone,

I am new to counting and tried my first live run yesterday at the Hard Rock in Hollywood, FL. As they only have 8 deck shoe tables (they have 6 deck as well, but all those use a CSM) I back counted which was fairly easy with the # of people just watching.

I would appreciate any advice or feedback as to what True Count do you normally Wong In at? I actually waited to place a bet at the table until the true count was just over +2 (based on my counting of the shoe from the start). I am just using the basic hi-lo with no side counts and figuring the true based on remaining half decks.

As my bankroll is small, I played the table min of $15 which is what I would bet based on a +1-2 count if the table min was at $5. I only played 4 hands, winning 3 of them :)) I was pleased to walk out with $45 after just being there only 50 minutes.

As there was only one pit open at 9am with the non-CSM tables, I immediately left after I won the 3 hands as I didn't want to stand around to back count another table in the same pit. Given the Hard Rock is the only casino I can play at regularly, is that a practice you suggest (that is leaving after playing one round)?

I appreciate your guidance and feedback.

Thanks,

Steve

I would appreciate any advice or feedback as to what True Count do you normally Wong In at?

Good question. Using the c-SCORE calculator on http://www.qfit.com/cvcxonlineviewer.htm, the difference in c-SCORE between wonging in at +1 and +2 is negliglible. The c-SCORE drops at +3.

Given the Hard Rock is the only casino I can play at regularly, is that a practice you suggest (that is leaving after playing one round)

You probably will have difficultly getting in a lot of playing time if you play only one round at one casino. The cost of driving there and back will probably exceed your EV.

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On a side note, despite the high gasonline prices, fuel costs are a small part of the cost of driving. Depreciation, interest, insurance, and maintenance are far more expensive.

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the info. Would you mind breaking down the #'s at the site you referenced in your first post? Is it better to have a lower c-score?

Also, what does the DI, CE and CE/WR #'s represent?

As I mentioned I just started counting ad quite honestly, was pleased to win 3 out of 4 hands then leave with my $45 profit. I actually went back today and played 3 hands. Pushed one, won the last 2 doubling down on the 3rd hand making another $45. So I don't even play a half round.

I don't know if this is the best way to do things, but I don't have a big bankroll and am excited and happy to make a little extra money using the count to know when I may have a better chance of winning.

I live about 7 miles from the casino, which is a good thing on maintenance and fuel.

Any other advice you may give will be much appreciated and thanks again for replying and for the CV site info.

Steve

Thanks for the info. Would you mind breaking down the #'s at the site you referenced in your first post? Is it better to have a lower c-score?

Also, what does the DI, CE and CE/WR #'s represent?

It is better to have a higher c-SCORE. SCORE is method for comparing blackjack games and strategies that uses a fixed bankroll ($10,000) and risk of ruin (13.5%). Based on 100 hands / hour, the SCORE is equivalent to the win rate / hour. This was invented by Don Schlesinger, and you read about it in his book, Blackjack Attack. (Note that 100 hands / hour includes the hands spent backcounting.)

c-SCORE is modification to SCORE which allows for variation in bankroll and risk.

DI stands for "desirability index" and is an older method invented by Don Schlesinger and is equal to the square root of the c-SCORE. The problem with it was that it was harder to make relative comparisons between two values. For instance, a DI of 8 is 4 times better than a DI of 4.

CE stands for "certainty equivalence." It is based on the proverb that a bird in hand is better than two in the bush. Suppose you can make a bet which has an expected value of winning $10, but also has the possibility of losing. You are also given the option of taking $5 with no risk. Which do you do? If the CE of the bet is higher than $5, you take the bet, if it is lower, you take the money. Hence, the higher the CE, the better the bet is. I believe CVCX is using the CE for an hour's worth of play.

CE/WR is the CE divided by the win rate. According to CVCX online, this values should be at least 0.5 otherwise your risk is too high. Note that although CVCX online does give the win rate unless you own the product, you can calculate it: WR = CE / (CE/WR).

All of these values deal with the concept of optimal betting. How much should you bet given the game conditions and bankroll? To learn more about this, you should read Blackjack Attack. It does not teach you how to count; it teaches you how to best use that knowledge. There is also information on www.bjmath.com and the archives on this site available to green chip subscribers.

I don't know if this is the best way to do things, but I don't have a big bankroll and am excited and happy to make a little extra money using the count to know when I may have a better chance of winning.

You should be very aware that even if you do everything perfectly, you will have a very high risk of losing your bankroll. I'm in the same situation as you, so I am extremely careful of which games I play. Backcounting is certainly the best way to attack a 6 deck game, but it requires patience. Unfortunately for you, you can't simply go to the next casino, so you either risk being caught from spending too much time in the casino or your playing time will be limited.

Thank you so much Rick for taking the time to answer my questions.

I have one practice counting software, but purchased the CV4.2 a few days ago.

Thanks again,

Steve

As you have been informed you are certainly at risk of losing your money.

In fact, if you "Wong" into a mediocre shoe game with a +2 or +3 Hi-Lo T.C. your probability of winning or pushing (each wager) is substantially LESS than 50% !

Your experience at the H.R. is very limited, and just as easily as having won, you could have lost all of the hands that you played.

The ONLY reason that you have a small advantage "Wonging" In is that your chance of hitting a Blackjack, a cold two card 20, or a successful double-down is significantly increased.

You seem to be quite interested in learning, and you are asking good questions.

Be sure to study "Risk-of-Ruin".