A Good Friend

of mine will be in town this week and wants to go to the casino. He is not a counter. Should I tell him that I can count cards and help him, or should I keep quiet and let him play on his own? My wife and another trusted friend are the only people I have discussed my abilities with. He can be trusted to not say a word, but I do worry about him no longer looking like a ploppy if he is asking me for advice or waiting to place his wager only after I place mine. Has anyone else ever been in this situation?

I've gone to Biloxi, Tunica, and Vegas with non-counting friends who knew I count with no problems.

I have a friend who used to work for me here in Atlanta who now lives in Tunica. He doesn't even gamble, but hangs out in the casinos for fun. A little over a year ago, I came out to Tunica, and he, I, and a close friend of his who is a construction worker who helped build many of the casinos there went to a casino.

The "friend" of his was convinced that casinos did not mind advantage players and could not be made to shut his mouth.

I talk to my old friend on the phone and on the internet, but now I can never let him know when I am coming out to Tunica.

Sad, I can't see my old friend because I cannot trust him not to tell his other friend I will be in town.

I wouldn't because unless he understands things like standard deviation and normal variance, he may blame you when he loses. The other night, I spent 2 hours trying to convince my brother that A) some casino games are better than others (and Let it Ride is not the best game to play); and B) Blackjack basically is an exercise in applied mathematics / statistics.

I demonstrated counting down a deck and how I could accurately determine when there were more tens / aces, etc. His conclusion was that it all comes down to luck, anyway (of course he is right for the short term). I have a hard enough time convincing him that he is better off playing one hand of $50 with a match play than sitting at a table for two hours playing $5 per hand.

just take him to the casino and make no announcements whatsoever about counting. I'd be the low key person and perhaps ask him to pick out the table (even if it's red play), and just chug away for a while.

Let him take the lead, after all, he's an "out of town" friend. I'd play in a normal fashion, and if "luck" happens your way, I'd announce it as such, no more, no less. If he wins a little, and you want to go, perhaps you could suggest he hold his winnings and go have lunch at Hooter's. :-)

Besides, if you let him know of your skills, he may ask you questions while you're seated that may prove fatal to future visits!

Good luck, enjoy.
Wildcard

...for non-counter, ploppy friends.

"The other night, I spent 2 hours trying to convince my brother that A) some casino games are better than others (and Let it Ride is not the best game to play)"...

L-I-R has a higher house edge than BJ in theory assuming correct basic strategy of both games, but BJ basic is much more complicated than L-I-R. L-I-R basic strategy is very simple, and it is a slow game. L-I-R might have a big house edge per hand, but not necessarily per hour. If the friend will spend just a few min studying L-I-R BS and sit at a crowded, slow game, he can enjoy some very low cost per hour entertainment.

My experience with ploppy friends is that their main objective is to have fun, and they expect to lose money in payment for that fun but hope to keep the cost to a minimum. They are generally not willing to spend much, if any, time studying to improve their odds.

Furthermore in comparing games, they often like the camaraderie among table players instead of being alone at the slots. Among the table games, they are often intimidated by other players at bj criticizing their play (you took the dealer's bust card & cost us all!) and they find placing a BS card in front of themselves is either embarrassing, brings criticism of slow play, or takes the fun out of the game. They also sometimes don't like the slow grind of an even money game. In L-I-R, their bad play doesn't affect the outcome of other player's hands and they get a thrill knowing they have a chance to draw a royal or some hand paying well over even money.

On the original poster's question, it would depend on how close of friend and if he can play it cool & keep a secret (both at the casino and later among family you don't want to know about your play). If he is someone you choose to help, make sure he knows the risks and work out some signals. Act like you're playing with your chips and rotate a key chip one way for hit and the other for stand. Riffle a stack to dbl down. Or use body signals. Cross your arms for one signal. Lean back in your chair for another. Position your arm in different ways on the table rail. Or use secret key words. "Do what you feel" means one thing. "Whatever you do will be wrong" means another. The possibilities are endless, and you can often work a ploppy friend into your own act for cover. Just a couple of buddies having a good time.

I've gone to Vegas with non-counting friends a number of times. Sometimes they know I count and sometimes they don't.
To someone who isn't that much into gambling, nothing is more boring than being stuck at a casino waiting a long time for someone else who is in to gambling (or counting) to "get their fill".
@^/
So, my solution is a compromise I call "Social Wonging".
@^)
Often the people I go to Vegas with are not as familiar with it as we jaded counters are! They want to "Ooh" and "Aah" over the new casinos, the oppulence and/or the tackiness. I use this to everyone's advantage.
@^!
If my companions know I count, then I tell them (in advance) that if I see a table that goes positive, I will stop and play a few hands, and it will likely only last a very short time, so they should either walk on ahead look for a slot machine or something else to amuse themselves briefly. As soon as the count goes bad, I will get up and we can all continue on with our little "sight seeing" tour.

If they don't know I count, I just tell them (in advance) that I am good about being able to tell which tables are "lucky" and I pay hunches, and may sit down to play for just a few hands whenever we are walking, and again, as soon as I get up, we can all continue the tour of properties.

We all stroll down the strip, going in on end of a casino, out the other end and right into the next casino. All the while, I am watching for tables to wong, and jumping in when I see them. Often, it is myself, another couple and a lady friend. Frankly, walking with a group of obvious ploppies is pretty good cover. (After all, how many self respecting serious counters are going to be strolling through a casino in a group?) I just sit down, play the plopy role, and then get up and (still playing the ploppy role) move on with my group.
Since these folks really are all ploppies, they genuinely exude that "Wow!" attitude when their friend "gets lucky" and wins a few hands. That is pretty good for cover. From the PB's perspective:
A guy is walking by with what appears to be his wife and another couple. On "impulse", he sits down at a BJ table, and wins a few hands, while the rest of his group either watches him (no counter would ever want people standing behind him and watching him, would they ?) or they find the nearest slot machine or check the rest of the place out. After a few wins, he, being of modest midwestern sensibilities, decides to quit "while he's ahead", or "before his luck runs out" or "need to catch up with his group" ( A.K.A. the count just went bad!) and he rejoins his group as they sight-see on. Pit bosses see the "for real" version of that scenario many times every single day in Vegas.
@^!
Also: You know how the showrooms always make you show up early to pick up your tix for a show, hoping you'll spend a little time in their casino while waiting for the showroom doors to open?
Don't disappoint them! Do a little Social Wonging, while your friends check out the joint and sight see. Then rejoin them when the count goes South and you can all head to the showroom together. I absolutley love doing this, since I get to see a (usually) good show, enjoy being with some friends and often make a little money to boot.
If I want to put in some serious table time, I do it at some point when we are all apart doing our own thing, or I just get up extra early in the AM and play then. In the latter case we all just agree to meet somewhere at a given time.

Yes I give up some EV by Social Wonging, as opposed to serious lone play, but its a great way to ensure that everyone has a good time and you get in some BJ time as well.
Hope this helps,
@^)
Cyclops

Good point on LIR. I was looking at it from a non-ploppy perspective. It was really hard to convince him since he had just won a bonus bet for $1,500 by getting 4 of a kind.

I let my ploppy friends play while I hang behind their chair and have a good time kibitizing, etc. When the count goes up, it's easy to get a nice bet down, even at single deck. I am amazed at what I have gotten away with doing this.

bjdavid

If he is someone you choose to help, make sure he knows the risks and work out some signals. Act like you're playing with your chips and rotate a key chip one way for hit and the other for stand. Riffle a stack to dbl down. Or use body signals. Cross your arms for one signal. Lean back in your chair for another. Position your arm in different ways on the table rail. Or use secret key words. "Do what you feel" means one thing. "Whatever you do will be wrong" means another.

Don't you think if the pit or the eye notices your signals they might suspect you and your friend of cheating? Why not just sit together, have your friend act like he's never played before and give him advice openly?

Before you play, work out a bet spread for him in proportion to your own, so he knows how to place his bets based on yours. If you teach him to take insurance when you do, stand 16vT with more than a minimum bet and stand 15vT with a maximum bet, then your verbal advice need only be basic strategy. To the pit you'll just be teaching a friend how to play the game, but actually he'll be playing with positive EV.

Just my two cents.