A Few Double Deck Questions

A Few Double Deck Questions

1. Is the game always dealt face down in a casino?
2. Are most of these games 6:5 or 3:2?
3. What are the most common double down and split rules?
4. What other major changes does the game have versus shoe games?

Thank you.

1. Is the game always dealt face down in a casino?

Nearly always. There are a very few exceptions to the rule, but they are rare.

2. Are most of these games 6:5 or 3:2?

For now, most double-deckers are 3:2, with a few exceptions in Las Vegas, but, as noted above, these are rare.

3. What are the most common double down and split rules?

Double on any 2 cards. Split up to 4 hands. No re-split of aces. Still not uncommon is double after splits, but it's getting less common all the time.

4. What other major changes does the game have versus shoe games?

Far more double-deckers are H17 as compared to shoe games. Surrender is rare in double-deckers and more common in shoe games. Penetration tends to be worse in double-deckers, although there are plenty of poorly penetrated shoe games as well. The cut-card effect is more pronounced in double-deckers, where it is not unusual to find cut-cards, as opposed to shoe games, where the cut-card effect is minimal. Double-deckers are slower than most shoe games. Many double-deckers have no mid-shoe entry rules, which are less common in shoe games. Preferential shuffling is often seen in double-deck games, especially on the Strip. Casinos tend to hawk double-deck games more than shoe games, and a few double-deckers are counter traps, especially the ones with good rules.

Could you go into this in greater detail. Thanks, Jim

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I have always thought of counter trap games to be watched by the sharpest eyes in the casino, whether they be PA,PB, or the dreaded eye.
I have always also assumed that they do not go to the bother of laying traps if they are not going to use the info, such as being 'fliered'or 'griffined'.
Counter trap games because of the 'generous' rules/conditions they provide tend not to be around for too long, if the rules of the game you are about to play are alot better than those mentioned in a report by CBJN or similar, by all means play them but perhaps be extra cautious whilst you figure out the scene.

Not sure where I have heard/read this, but for some reason I am thinking Mandalay Bay sometimes offer counter trap games ??

its kind in the entire casino. For example, one table offering single deck $10 minimum with the other 15 tables in the casino offering 6 deck with the same dollar limits. The thinking of casino management is that the lure of good rules will draw good players to that table where they can be watched, identified and sent packing.

BJ counting is a never ending cat and mouse game. I believe this would force many counters to accept a break-even at best... looks like they are going to continue to beat counters over the head to slow them down to basically an even game. Then they will take their chances against the ego of most counters. I would think prior to attaining perfect counting ability, you paid your dues at the tables. How much and is this when most people attempting to learn just say the hell with it.

A double-deck game with very good rules can be an intentional counter trap or it can be coincidental. Someone here has already mentioned Mandalay Bay, with its one pit of excellent double-deckers. In that instance, many counters believe this is an intentional counter trap. In other places where the DD game is the best game in the house, it will often be hawked more than the other games, especially if it is a higher limit game for that house. While it may not be an intentional counter trap, the effect is the same.

the purpose of the 1 or 2 good double deck games is not to attract and catch counters...it's just so that they can say they have double deck for those few stupid "good customers" who won't play anything else. The fact that these tables also happen to be watched closely is directly related to the fact that there are so few of them. Most of these 2D games (in todays conditions) are not any easier to beat and don't give much more edge than the better ruled shoe games...but do manage to get more green chippers put into Griffin for the first time than just about any other game out. These games are considered "counter traps" because a skilled player has to jump the bets so quickly due to today's typically shallow pen and the big spread required and that makes you quite visible to even the most clueless surveillence operative...especially when they only have a handful of such games to watch.