5 Ace Counting Question.

Hi again y'all....

I bought a counting stratedgy called The "5-Ace" BJ Counting System. It says basicly you count the aces and the 5's only . If more 5's have been played than aces, player has an advantage (because a 5 can turn a dealer's hand of 12, 13, 14 and 16 into a "standing hand." If more aces than 5's have been dealt have been dealt, the dealer has an extra advantage. Then it tells you how to raise and lower your bets accordingly, etc.

What do you think, does it have any value?

Jimmy

This is a very old "system." It has minimal value. What did you pay for it, and to whom?

The seller offers a money back guarantee and sells it, 3 pages long for $10. He claims it works of course or your money back.

I plan to play at Harrah's in Shreveport, the 6 deck game but when I look around the net, every one has a slightly different basic strategy for a 6 deck game. Does anyone know where to get the "correct" one to use? Is there an easy way to memorize it or just keep studying it?

Thanks,

Jimmy

Theoretically the Ace 5 system seems like a good idea but it is not practical to use against a 6 deck shoe. Your fluctuations will be wild and your money will probably last longer if you flat bet and use basic strategy. If you really want to win at this game you must do your homework, practice, be adequately capitalized and emotionally prepared for large equity swings. More importantly you don't want to let the casinos know what you're up to or they will ask you to leave. I would recommend buying Stanford Wong's Professional Blackjack as well as Olaf Vancura and Ken Fuchs' Knock-Out Blackjack. These books can be found in the Catalog section of this website and both offer simple yet powerful level 1 counting systems.

Jimmy, What the other posters have said is true in that this system will not work against the shoe game. I'd suggest you contact the seller and ask for your refund. Hit 'em hard, The Side

HERE IS WHAT HE SAYS IN AN EMAIL TO ME. HE SEEMS SO SINCERE...

Jimmy,

On a $5 table, I normally buy in SMALL... $100. My loss limit for a session is $100-$200 (a second $100 buy max). My win goal is (usually) $400 unless I've had several profitable sessions prior. Then I may stretch to $600 max. I do not push it.

When I play the casino boats in SC, I know that I've got a limited time to play, so occasionally I push a little... I've turned $60 into $600 several times there. But when in Vegas, with lots of casinos to play, I generally get up after +$400 and move on.

Don't misunderstand me... you can have losing sessions with any system... bad cards, bad players screwing you up, etc. The goal is a winning TRIP. I try to limit myself to 3 sessions a day... morning, mid-day & night. It's easy to get caught up and playing all day, but this almost always results in negative returns. With win goals & loss limits, 2 out of 3 winning sessions a day can pay for a trip several times over ($400+$400-$200=$600 day). By using these parameters, losing 2 out of 3 is at worst a wash... +400-$200-$200=$0.

SEE WHAT I MEAN? SOUNDS SO GOOD BUT YOU GUYS ARE THE EXPERTS. I WELCOME ANY COMMENTS.............

JIMMY

'HERE IS WHAT HE SAYS IN AN EMAIL TO ME. HE SEEMS SO SINCERE...'

Sincerity & fact are different concepts.

'My loss limit for a session is $100-$200 (a second $100 buy max).'

This guy is not a pro. This amount represents less than a green chip pro would play on one round.

'My win goal is (usually) $400 unless I've had several profitable sessions prior. Then I may stretch to $600 max.'

Pro's don't have win limits unless it's heat related, or their wives birthday :)

'I do not push it.'

Push what, oh of course luck. If your relying on luck to win you'll need it!

'I've turned $60 into $600 several times there.'

Why do I get the feeling you've never set foot in a casino. You can see chumps performing this feat every hour at most tables, (you can also see them have equally wide negative swings too. That's what keeps the chumps coming back. I've known decent basic strategy players to play 10hrs a day for weeks & be winning. The house edge is quite small & the fluctuations huge.

'Don't misunderstand me... you can have losing sessions with any system'

True, which is why you can't evaluate any system based on a few sessions like he has done.

'... bad cards, bad players screwing you up, etc.'

etc? bad weather perhaps. Everyone gets their share of good & bad cards. I assume you know to stand on hard 17 & above & DD strategy, so the pro's are making their money with correct strategy on those bad hands, minimising their losses, & betting up when there is an excess of 10's & A's remaining. (That's 5 values 10,J,Q,K,A) offset against 2,3,4,5,6. An Ace Five count is useless against a shoe. It was designed for use against single decks.

'The goal is a winning TRIP.'

It shouldn't be.

'It's easy to get caught up and playing all day, but this almost always results in negative returns.'

You could win 9 out of 10 sessions simply by quitting when you're ahead, or using progressions but your goal should be to maximise winnings. If the game your playing has a positive expectation then this expectation can be quantified as an hourly rate. (approximating this hourly rate requires a computer simulation or a few thousand hours of records) Simply, the more hours you play, the more you can expect to make. Qualification: In order for your results to be statistically valid you need to put in some major hours.

As a BJ pro you would be lucky to make 1% of your turnover, you would expect negative months, even playing full time

Mr ZZyzx has already told you which books to buy. I'd add Blackbelt in BJ as well. This gives you a choice of 3 simple 1 level systems.
Learning to count any of these systems is dead easy. The hard part is putting in the hours, weathering the fluctuations, & avoiding the heat.

If something sounds too good to be true it generally is. BJ is hard work.

Last advice: Don't skimp on the books. They will pay for themselves thousands of times over if you become a pro, & save you hundreds of times over if you decide pro BJ play is too hard.

That's a myth. It doesn't matter, over the long run, how other players play their hands. If he believes such an easily disproved myth - actually, it's more like a superstition - he's a moron who has no business selling blackjack strategy.

His logic regarding wins/losses per trip is also seriously flawed. He figures 2 wins @ $400 vs. 2 losses @ 200... you could just as easily reverse the numbers, in which case it doesn't sound nearly as good. Blackjack is a game of small percentages. You can't count on breaking even in a single trip. This guy is a rank amateur, as are most system sellers. The best strategies have been published in the books mentioned here. If you get good at one of them, you'll show a small (in terms of percentage) profit over the long haul, which is the most that can be hoped for in this game.

Ace-Five count system is very useful as an Ace side-count method *if you use Ace-neutral counting system*. I use Ace-Deuce side count when I use Hi-Opt I (in which deuce is a neutral card), which makes it effectively Hi-Lo for betting purposes, and otherwise I use Ace-Five count. I find this type of two-parameter system is easier to use than the main count system + (unbalanced) Ace-alone side count.

~Black Jack.

PS: BTW, I think this idea of using Ace-Deuce method for side-count was first proposed by Arnold Snyder and others.

Exactly! You’ve just been lucky.  It happens. 

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Don