1st time poster..introduction and question

hi heres my public profile just so you guys have a little background about me!

20/m/MN
just starting (1month)....read (in order): professional BJ (wong), blackjack blue print (rick blaine) send me some suggestions...i would appreciate the advice!

have about 4K (and rising steadily by about 1.5k a month) to play with....not evening thinking about trying yet though!

practicing wong hi-low count

practicing with casino verite software (very helpful)

have so many questoions!!

i would love to be able to find an experienced black jack mentor/group of mentors here (electronicaly) and/or localy!

if your a patient person who seeks an "apprentice" ask me for my email adress!

my question is this: i've read professional blackjack and blackjack blueprint as mentioned above...both books describe different bet strategys to be used with the hi-low counting system...wongs book lays down a "benchmark" that seems more agressive

it goes:

using "benchmark" rules

$100 @ +4 or >
$75 @ +3 or >
$50 @ +2 or >
$25 @ +1 and 0 and
$10 @ all - (neg.) counts results $16/100hands

vs

bj blueprint (6deck):

x= count
<= = greater than or equal to (just so there is zero confusion as i don't know the standard for conveying this type of info)

12units @ counts +5 or more
10 @ 4<= x <5
8 @ 3<= x <4
4 @ 2<= x <3
2 @ 1<= x <2
1 @ 0 or neg.

finaly my question is in general how do you settle upon or create a betting strategy/spread to use? (how do you know how much to bet and at what counts, to produce the best results?)

and specifically what make either one of these two strategies more effective than the other!?

basically how do i evaluate betting strategies?

any tips, link or books would be most appreciated!

thanks,

BeginnersLuck

1. SW's book is a good one, you have already read it. Plan on re-reading it frequently as you will be amazed how much you pick up the second pass, or the third pass. And eventually things that seem to be senseless will start to make sense.

2. There are lots of other good books. I like Arnold Snyder's Black Belt in Blackjack. But there are plenty of others, including blackjack attack, bootlegger's fairly new 100 proof blackjack, etc. Most of those books are repetitive, but each still offers new pearls of wisdom if you can turn off your speed-reading and read carefully... :)

Main thing is to pick your counting system and practice it. CVBJ is the way to do this, IMHO. Can hardly beat the drills, the playing, and the nagging whenever you make a betting error, or a playing error, or a counting error. Sort of like having your wife help you learn to count. :) (and nobody better tell her I said that.)

hey thanks for the suggestions...ill have to make a stop over at amazon!

oh im loving CVBJ i just started to use it lately (new computer) and its so nice to have all the tools it offers...makes self practice so fun and easy! i need to get some real cards for deck estimation though! i can estimate well on cvbj but when i go over to real world i have a tough time! other than that i love it!!

are you well versed with cvbj ss rat??

anyone have any direct info pertaining to my original questions??

Buy a BUNCH of cheap cards, and rubber-band off 1 deck, 2 decks, 3 decks, 4-decks, etc.

Use them to judge the height of your practice discard pile.

Deck estimation is one of the harder things for a newcomer to master, but after you've done this for a while, you'll get to the point where just a glance at the discard pile will allow you to just "know" the TC at any given RC without having to think about it.

BeginnersLuck,

First of all, welcome to the board! If your experience here is anything like mine has been, you'll find a wealth of information here that will help transform you into a true Advantage Player!

In regards to the betting schedule, the best way to determine this is by simulation. In particular, I like CVCX, which, like CVBJ, is written by Norm Wattenberger and is available from his qfit.com website (see link below). With CVCX, you input the game's rules and penetration, your bankroll, and your tolerance for risk, and the program tells you exactly how much you should bet at each TC, your overall expected win rate, and much, much more.

If you'd like me to run a sim for you, to show you the programs capabilities, send me an email (click the above).

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

I don't often toot my own horn here, but my book, Bootlegger's 200 Proof Blackjack, contains an extensive set of charts for bet sizing in most of the games you can find today in the U.S. It includes optimal and near-optimal bets for play-all and suggested bet ramps for wonging and semi-wonging (using an exit strategy). You might find it to be a useful addition to the books you've already purchased. You can order it here on this website.

Best of luck to you.

about "well-versed" but yes, I use it all the time to practice before going into a casino, particularly if I have not played in a few weeks...

The way to answer your bet ramp question is another visit to qfit. Order CVCX. Now you can find the _perfect_ bet ramp for your rules, indices, game, etc. Big bet by +4 is not a bad scheme, but there are situations that change that to minimize RoR while maximizing your hourly win rate...

im unfamiliar with this acronym...care to explain?

ROR = Risk of Ruin = The likelihood of losing all of one's bankroll.

Welcome and you sound like you're serious about learning.

All the prior responses are very good, but I suggest the next thing you do is get a "Green Chip" subscription here. The nominal fee to access the GC pages will more than be made up with useful knowledge that you can turn into $$ at the tables.

Wish you well,
PM

Also read: Black Belt in Blackjack by Arnold Snyder and Big Book of Blackjack by Arnold Snyder.

Advanced book: Blackjack Attack by Don Schlesinger.

AVOID: Any book with incorrect basic strategy, any book that claims the player can get an edge by progerssive or pyramid betting schemes as opposed to betting by the count.

oh the glossary will be nice for me im doing some searching around on the past posts and seeing alot of acronyms.

thanks praying mantis

i will be making another order for the books you guys listed! thanks again for the suggestions....always nice to know your spending money on the right lit.

a little more about my background...and more

i was alwasy a slacker student (highschool) but a great test taker(why i passed)...ive noticed that card counting/blackjack is the first mental challenge that i have actually enjoyed studying/practicing under my own free will! i have a feeling that this endevour will be a posative life experience! i think it has helped me with my focus, problem solving, multi-tasking....little skills that i can already tell are improving, even for the short time i've been practicing! not to mention im actually reading which i hardly ever do on my own! and ive heard reading nearly anything is beneficial to mental health! im greatful mr. wong created this board and advertised it in his book or i may have never found it. you guys have already helped me in numerous ways and im on post number 1!

oh one more thing ive nocited that my acurracy and speed are almost always dimminished (considerably) when i haven't rested enough! ive never noticed it so drastically in all my life...at least for me...taking an hour nap or a little more before practicing really boosts my booth my acurracy/speed! but especially my accuracy!

i can imagine its like this for others but to what degree do you guys experience it!?!?

does being tired effect you less with more experience (on average)?? or is it something that must always be considered?? and i realize that everyone is differnet...just interterested

thanks guys,

beginnersluck

hey sorry about that titaniumman! im still getting used to the format of this message board and i must have looked at the wrong name!

my appologies

oh one more thing ive nocited that my acurracy and speed are almost always dimminished (considerably) when i haven't rested enough! ive never noticed it so drastically in all my life...at least for me...taking an hour nap or a little more before practicing really boosts my booth my acurracy/speed! but especially my accuracy!

i can imagine its like this for others but to what degree do you guys experience it!?!?

does being tired effect you less with more experience (on average)?? or is it something that must always be considered?? and i realize that everyone is differnet...just interterested

Practice and casino play is apples and oranges, but one constant is that when you're tired, it WILL affect your play. Don't do either tired. Definitely don't drink alcohol, either.

Everyone is human...contrary to what you may believe about some of these pros, and we humans are prone to more mistakes when tired. Mistakes equate to lost EV and if you're like me playing red, you can't afford any loss of EV...there's not a whole hell of a lot to begin with!

Regards,
PM