wonging with an unbalanced count

I am using the KISS count for 6/8 deck games, (black 2, 3-7 +1, 10-A -1) so at 6 decks when the running count has risen to 12 (from 0) this is precisely a TC of 2. I plan to bet flat at this count until the count goes down and then Wong-out when the count goes down. My question is, since the unbalanced count loses accuracy away from the pivot, what is a good table departure point (say a true count <= -1). Also, is it a good idea to use a 1-2 spread, and say go up to 2 units when the TC is >=4. My simulations (using Hi-Lo with TC 2 entry) give nice edge around 1%, is this level still achievable with an unbalanced count. My intuitive guess is yes, since my TC 2 calculation is exact. Thanks in advance.

Apologize if my previous post is unclear. Actually, a better question I have is : What is the best unbalanced count for purposes of Wonging? I'm not concerned about playing indices, just concerned with the the system giving the most accurate betting information (most accurate true count) for TC's 1 and above. Thanks

If not, look up Dr. Brett Harris. Now there is one smart dude. (Haven't seen him around in a long time by the way.) Anyway, I think that his brh-I count is probably the best unbalanced count that there is. Of course, it is also a level 3 count and you still need to convert to true count to get the most out of the system.

Good luck.

Know any details about BE etc. I have also heard about red 7 for unbalanced wonging (old posts). Is there a big difference?

as it has a BE (in true count mode) of 0.994. It is also a level 3 unbalanced count. Red 7 has a BE of 0.983. brh-1 in true count mode has a BE of .988.

brh-1 gains a lot of playing efficiency over Uston SS by not counting the 9 as a negative number. This helps in insurance decisions and the hard 12 decisions.

Curious as to what type of game(s) you have access to - more descriptive than your previous post.

Based on what you have said previously I personally would not be wasting my time with such an effort. With more information I can explain further.

All the casinos near to me offer 8 (mostly) and 6 (sometimes) deck games. Rules are DA2,DAS,SPA,no surrender with 75-80% penetration. The main problem is that I live in Canada and the table minimums are usually $10-15. Hence I need to do a lot of Wonging (not a problem with no heat). BE and insurance efficiency are most important with my tactics. I also am visiting vegas in 3 weeks (first time!), I hope to play a lot more sitting down ($5 mins) there, so I might use the KISS III count (similar to KO) for 1-2 and 6 deck games there. I have never heard of brh-1, is the system published somewhere? Thanks for the input.

OK, now I don't know exactly what your goals in playing this game are. But what I want to point out to you is that while it is true that for your game:

8D (or 6D for that matter), H17, DAS, etc with a 1-2 spread wonging in at TC =2 and making max bet at TC>=4 using HiLo will net you roughly a 1% edge, your return with a $10 unit is a lowly $2.48 per hour.

Upgrading your skills to Wong's Halves Count (which is a damn good count by the way, used by many great contributors here), a balanced count with a BE very close to the Uston SS would indeed increase your return. You could now expect your pockets to swell at the whopping rate of $2.55 per hour.

You simply cannot defeat a shoe game with such a small spread. Also, an 8-deck game with 75% penetration is unplayable. A 6-deck game with 75% penetration is borderline even if you had favorable rules.

If your answer is "but these are the only games in town", you may need to decide if you are truly an advantage player or really a gambler.

My advice is this: Get yourself together about $5000 (it doesn't have to be in a sock drawer!). Practice the everliving crap out of whatever count you decide to use, because you're going to risk $5000 on it. Next, go to your local casinos and ONLY play the 6D games, don't drink, and wong into +2TC counts with $20, ramp up to $100 by the time the count gets up to +9TC, and bet down to $10 if the count drops to +1 and wong out if the count drops to -1.

What will this get you? Well, your expected win rate will be $5.70/hr (we're getting close to minimum wage now) and if you can log 1000 hours over the next year your chances of busting your $5000 is about 8.5%. You have a 67% chance of winning somewhere between $470 and $10,930 and a 95% chance of being between a $4700 loss and a $16,000 win.

I'm sorry. Games in the midwest and Canada pretty much suck. There are a few exceptions, but not many. They can be beaten, but it takes some work.

As far as Dr. Harris' systems, I'm not sure where you can get his books. Seems like maybe bjrnet has them for sale? Not sure. Try doing a google search. As I said, I haven't seen or heard from him on Green Chip in a long time. (Although I was gone for some time as well.)

Good luck to you.

Thanks for the detailed advice. I think you are right, I'm going to practice my 1-2 deck game so I have a better expected return when I visit vegas. I think I can still make more money making a few trips a year to las vegas playing good games than wasting time and risking my bankroll on these 8 deckers. Thanks again.

that with that strategy you have the following pitfalls:

1. The EV will be much higher-true. However, with only a few trips the standard deviation will overwhelm your EV. Anyone who's played for any length of time at all can tell you about horrendous losing streaks. I personally am several thousand dollars in the red this year. I know of a few of the better professional players around who have gone into the month of December down for the year (but made it all up and a lot more that last month). It takes a long time to overcome that little bastard called "luck".

2. From your posts, it seems clear you are a red-chip player. As such, I doubt that your comps will clear out the expenses for a trip from Canada to Vegas. This has to be taken into account as well.

I don't mean to be raining on your parade here. But it sounds to me like you are stuck in a bad situation for now unless your goal is to simply have some fun when you go on a trip to the casinos.

And if you were willing to go after a level-3 unbalanced true-count system like brh-I or Uston SS, for God's sake take some time and learn AOII cold if now you're going to attack the SD/DD games. That WILL be worth it.

Personally, I'd get on Green Chip (for the archives if nothing else, plus there's a lot of people smarter than me on there) and do one hell of a lot more research before I started investing ('cause that's what you're doing) any real money in this venture.

Where in Canada do we have 6 deck games? I know around where I live, Brantford and Niagra are using 8 deck. If you know of any 6 deck games or any good games in Ontario, please let me know.

Thanks

Only in the high limit area, however they sometimes have $25 mins in the high limint area on weekdays. Also, if you are ever in Windsor, it might be worth it to play in Detroit; I read recently on (on this board) that MGM and Motor City have 6D games, not sure about the mins there though. Did Niagara remove their 6D games, I thought there $50 tables were 6 when I visited.

How are they now? Last time I visited Niagara the pen was horrible (70%), never been to Brantford. Is the 8D game playable there. Thanks.