What seems to be a Complicated Count

Hey everyone, been studying a simple plus minus count for awhile now, about 8 to 9 months. Been progressing rather slow however that is how I like it. Slowly but surely. Anyway, the count I'm learning is from revere limited. And as I've gotten to know more about the game it seems that everyone obtains the true count dividing by full decks. I'm currently learning to divide by half deck packets. In addition, I'm also betting according to the running count rather than the true count as most people seem to be doing.

I know this may all sound weird but I think Revere did this for accuracy and I conclude that the index numbers on the basic strategy variations were devised for a true count obtained from half deck division. Here's an example.. if one deck was dealt out of a 6 deck shoe and the running count was plus 10 then the true count would be plus 2, If you were divide by full decks ofcourse. By half decks the count would be plus 1. This difference has lead to my conclusion of why the index numbers on the Basic Strategy variations were as such. Because I don't want to follow the BSV and then obtain the TC by full deck division when its suppose to be by half.

Let me give you guys some numbers.

I have 12, dealer shows 2, stand if true count is +2 or more, o/w hit
I have 9, dealer shows 5 or 6, DD if true count is -2 or more, o/whit.

The betting strategy is also complicated. You bet according the the running count and how many decks have been dealt. Here's some numbers.

If a half deck is dealt from a 6 deck shoe you:
Bet two units when the running count is +8
Parlay when the running count is +13
Bet two hands (4-4) " " " +19

If a full deck is dealt from a 6 deck shoe you:
Bet two units +7
Parlay +12
Bet two hands +17

Sorry if this is all confusing but does anyone else do it like this.. is this old school? Sorry for the massive post but I need some advice from experienced and all knowing players. Thanks for your time.

I never heard of the Revere limited.Is this a two level count?If it is, that's the reason he probably divides by half decks. This way you can use the same TC index numbers as a one level count with very close accuracy.

Is the betting strategy you speak of.... after each conclusive round or individual bets according to the exact same condition? If so, it is not very often(once in a blue moon) you'll see an RC of +19 after only 1/2 deck has been played,especially if your using a one level count.

The problem with not converting to a true count and only using RC numbers is they lack accuracy as more cards are depleted and you are prone to making mistakes. The most important part of card counting is the last half of the shoe,where every bullet matters. In a sense,betting only on the running count is like "Winging it".

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Revere Limited is the company which continues to sell Lawrence Revere's strategies. It is not a name of count.

Furthermore, I also understand that a RC of +19 through the first half of the deck is unlikely but it has to be distinguished incase it happens. Also, as each half of deck is dealt out the betting according to the running count changes. If you need me to explain that more just say so in your next response.

Now, you also say that betting according to the running count is not accurate but don't you think that Lawrence Revere devised it to be just as accurate and mistake free. That you are less likely to make mistakes because obtaining the true count involves division along with estimation of the decks. If you just remember the betting numbers for the running count for each half of the deck then thats it. All you need to do is remember and estimate. Instead of remember the count, then estimate, and then divide.

Also,if you keep a perfect running count then your true count will also be perfect. Assuming you make perfect estimations of the deck. So if your running count is errored then your true count will also be errored. I feel they are just as equal. Because the running count will also be 0 at the end of every single shoe. If you could I would like you to explain how the errors can be made from betting from the running count instead of the true. I don't think I understood exactly what you were trying to say. Thanks for the response though. Very appreciated.

On a side note, what count are you using and where did you learn. I've looked over the online school here and it seems pretty good. I think I will read the whole thing.

Also, if I were to try and learn how to bet according to the true count but by dividing by half decks. Where could I get such numbers?

You seem to know all the questions you ask. What you're basicly doing is winging the TC by eliminating the math. If you feel this is as accurate as any count system on the market and it works well for you,go for it. By the way Revere used a powerful multi-level count and would bet on the TRUE count,not the running count.

In general 2 level count systems are divided by half decks. If you use a one level count and choose to divide by half decks then you should multiply the TC times 2. You can then use the optimal betting strategies and index numbers accurately that are provided in a good blackjack book for a one level count.

Your strike numbers for a running count look reasonable from the start. However to arrive at critical strike numbers through out the entire shoe I would make charts that mathematically correlate the running count with the true count and decks remaining. This way you can mathematically figure out what your optimal bets should be through out the entire shoe. Include this important feature on the chart. Then study the chart untill you memorize it and I think you'll do mighty fine.

What do you mean by multi-level count?

The strategy I purchased is a simple plus-minus count however I do know the Revere Limited company provides 3 other strategies. In his book he says to learn the plus minus first before moving on to the advanced point count. He says the advanced point count is the most accurately devised system out there. I would assume a multi-level count would include side counts. Because in the strategy I'm learning now he says the next step after you've mastered how to count, bet, and play is to learn to keep a side count of 5's and Ace's. He shows you how to factor it into your play and betting.

I understand how the multiplication of 2 would allow me to use index numbers that were devised for 1 deck division. But I already memorized all those damn numbers. Also, I don't think I quite understand you mean by a two-level count.

I do have all the numbers for betting according to the running count. In, fact when you purchase the strategy it comes with the 8,6, and 4 deck betting strategy. Pretty much comes with everything you need. I just had questions in my mind about it since no one else seems to be doing that way. Except!! for Revere's family. I call them up and ask them questions and how I should learn. What I got from them is that since your playing strategy is Basic Strategy 80% of the time and your betting according the running count. Your only going to have to look and estimate only 20% of the when the situation calls for it. But I'm sure as I people have become more advanced, obtaining the true count will be easy. So obtaining the true count for betting wouldn't be a problem.

Furthermore, I just got the software smartcards. Don't know if you have it or not but hopefully you will have an answer to this question. When converting to the true count I had options to either round up, down, or truncate. What do you do and what do people normaly do??? Lets say I had a true count of exactly +1.5. If you choose to round up then you get +2. And if I had a 12 and the dealer is showing 2 and my index number is +2 then I would stand according to my playing strategy and rounding up. It seems if you round up then you are being more risky, and down more conservative. Truncate, I really don't know. Please explain that one. Again, thanks for the responses. Greatly appreciated.

The Revere Advanced point count is the one sold by the family at a complete bargain price(NOT!) of $200.00 each for the hand held and shoe games respectively.

Revere claimed that this count was the strongest ever but in reality this was not the case.

It is a level four count with an ace side count and is not practical in the real world.

I experimented with it for about six months and the table fatigue was unbelievable.

I generated the index numbers with SBA so I don't know how these compare to Revere's as have never read the booklets.

If anybody has them,let me know.

Computor sims. have shown that the Revere APC will NOT beat even simple level two counts such as HI-OPT II or AOII.

You dont need to round the TC for playing purposes. You simply stand if the TC is equal to 2 or greater. At TC of plus 1.5 you would hit the 12 because th TC is not equal to or greater than the index number of 2.

I believe that is what truncating is and that is what I will do.

So where can I get my hands on the Hi opt II count or the AOII count. What do you mean by a level 4 count or a level two count for that matter? Please explain

You can purchase the HI-OPt II report from Rge for approx $40.00 and purchase the book BJ for blood by Carlson if you want the AOII.
Alternatively and probably a better idea would be to buy CVBJ from qfit.com. It's the best practice software and also includes all the index numbers for the above systems plus many others.

A count is a level 1,2,3,4 etc depending on the highest number given to a card i.e Uston APC has the five counted as +3 whereas the AOII counts the 5 as +2. Hope this helps.

Yes, now I completely understand everything about the level count. I already have the software smartcards and it isn't everything I need. I can't be put in playing simulations. There isn't any index numbers either. I will probably purchase CV after I have played and won with a simple plus minus strategy to gain experience with a count. Don't know if I've asked you but what count are you using?

You state "after you have played AND won". Practicing your trade in a casino can be very costly to your br.CVBJ allows you to specify which count and betting strategy for each customised player and then practice all you like without any real loses. You can set up variuos tests such as deck estimation, counting and index numbers to name a few. Your error rates are then displayed.
It is extremely difficult to check your counting and betting accuracy in live play.

I wish it were available when I first started.The cost is nothing compared to the gain.

To answer you question, I have used the following counts during my 'experimental' faze.

Hi-lo,Hi-Opt II,Revere point count,Uston APC,Revere APC14,Omega II and Zen.

JMHO but you should stay with a level one count such as HI-Lo and be more concerened with your ramp and ROR. Higher counts only perform 'better' if you don't make mistakes. I realise that I have simplified things somewhat but I hope that this helps.
M

This is the best bj advice you will ever get-I am not going to repeat
myself. Buy Stanford Wongs "Professional Blackjack". Learn the Halves
count by doubling the values, and then divide by half deck(s) to get
your true count. In other words, instead of using the value the book
gives, double it. For instance:A was -1, now -2. 5 was +1 1/2, now it
is +3. 7 was + 1/2, now it is +1. It will be the best $19.95 you ever
spent. Incidentally, by doubling the values and dividing by half
decks, the index numbers remain the same.

Your info has been very helpful. It seems you have gone through many counts. Just how long have you been playing. In addition, I am certified to deal blackjack, just need to pass my auditions and get hired as a dealer. I'm able to practice my count in also very real conditions with practice dealers at the school. Ofcourse I still can't check all my mistakes and computer will do a much better job at that. However, it would make for the next phase up before casino play. And how much does the CV cost? What is ramp or ROR? Also, you can enter in the index numbers that you want into the CV software? All that stuff sounds amazing. It really is the only software you need. Damn, should have gotten that one first.

Whelp, thanks again. I'm well on my way, and I've also adjusted my playing strategy to bet according to the true count and divide by whole decks. Which brings another question. If 2.5 decks are gone do you round or what? Or would you only divide the RC by 3.5 if you knew that your RC number was odd like 7? Yeah, sorry for all the questions. I get the feeling this thread will go on forever. It's this forum that will make up the second half of my education.

The term Ramp refers to placing increased bets and various playing advantages. A spread from 1-12 could mean placing 8 units at a true count of +4 and 10 units at +6 for example.
The games that you play will alter this ramp depending on table conditions and starting dis-advantages etc.
Risk of ruin(ROR)is the chance that you will lose yur bankroll without re-sizing your betting schedule. This is more important than the count system that you decide on. Perhaps you can purchase a few books. Blackbelt,Pro BJ and Bj attack would be ideal at this stage.

CVBJ is the only PRACTICE software that you need.You can use a pre-defined count and betting ramp or use your own.The price is around $90.00 I think.

There has been a fair amount of dispute regarding true count estimation but IMHO keep it simple.Always round down and be conservative when betting your money! For example the running count is +17 and 3 decks are remaining,The true is +5.6 so call it+5.
There can be a tendancy to over-estimate advantage and this method will alleviate that.

Let me know if you are using a simple shuffle when you become a dealer so I can come over and kill it. A very fair exchange for the information don't you think!!
M

Thanks for the advice Ramfod. I was just looking through that book last night. I actually have it already but just haven't read it at all. I'm sure it probably has all the numbers I need. Thanks for reminding me.

Well, haven't been in Casino's long enough to recognize a simple shuffle since I never pay attention. But the shuffle demanded by the Casino I want to work at isn't simple. Furthermore, shuffle machines are swarming in this place and I bet by next year all the tables will have them. At least there not getting those damn machines that shuffle while you deal because I figure you can't count on those. I hope those things break 100% of the time so they will never be used.