Uston APC with I18; $5 minimum

I've played for a while with HiLo, decided to learn a more advanced count and chose Uston APC. I've practiced the count, and the I18,but won't visit casinos until much more practice--still takes me 30 seconds to count down a deck. How important is it to memorize the rest of the indices? Will going beyond the I18 give me a much greater advantage, or minuscule?
Second question : Where can I find DD with good penetration and $5 minimum (in US)? TIA

My advice is to play tournament poker instead of searching for the unattainable. Most good blackjack games are appearance-related only; traps for the unwary. Also you will make a lot more money.

You will not find many (if any) $5 2D games, much less with good penetration. Like Uston (and his APC) they are to be found only in books about the past. Just about all 2D is $25 or higher minimum, with just barely playable pen and watched more closely than shoes. An advanced count such as the APC will not return the money commensurate with it's difficulty.

Better to play a simpler single-level count, such as hi-lo, or if you must play 2-level, Zen. APC will tire you out much faster than a one level count. As a result, you will make mistakes which will cost you more than you hoped to gain with the more difficult count. And you may as well learn to play the shoes now, as this is what you will have to play when and if you decide to play for more than red chips. If you can play pitch games, you can play shoes. Outside of northern Nevada, you will find very little 1D anywhere, some 2D, but not enough of either to play very long.

You do not need to wait until you can count down a deck quicker than you now can. All you have to do is keep up with the dealer, anything faster is vanity, which will not win any money for you. You will gain speed with casino play. You should get you feet wet with actual conditions---before they get worse. Good luck.

Don't bother learning anything beyond the I18 unless you are going to be playing single deck w/good pen. Same advise about "advanced" counting systems - not worth the bother and could even hurt if you make more mistakes playing it compared to hi/lo. Keep it simple and look for the best conditions with the best pen and you'll be much better off. I don't know about other parts of the country but the DDs in Vegas are primarily counter traps (and not very good for the most part any way).

indices contribute around 30% to your total win rate. If you move your money with the count and play basic strategy you'll make about 70% of what you'd make using a full set of indices for your playing decisions. This comes from SW Professional Blackjack, so I'm assuming it refers to a full set of -1 thru +6 indices.

Actually, there is plenty of DD in Tunica, but it is $10 minimum. I recently played HiLo about eight hours a day for five days there at Sam's Town, Sheraton, Horseshoe and Gold Strike and played nothing but DD. Penetration was 50-60%, and occasionally a bit deeper. Not too bad. I was just hoping to find out there was someplace with a lower minimum until I get my bankroll higher.

Smart AP's who have found good games will not tell a message board where they are, nor should they. Good games don't last long and it is lazy and inconsiderate to ask someone to make their winning situations public knowledge. Get off your your computer and start scouting some games for yourself!

And by the way, as soon as you find your winning situation, win a ton and don't tell anyone. Otherwise some other AP will show up and ruin it for you.

PS 60% pen in DD is still crap when you can find 90% pen in shoes and 80% pen in DD, all in the USA.

Revealing a decent game is not giving up any big secrets. As most game conditions are pretty well known, helping out a fellow player is not exactly giving away the store. Not everyone has the means, let alone the desire to scout out the entire nation looking for a playable game. That's one of the reasons why folks tune in here and even more reason for subscribing to a service such as CBJN. No one is expected to give up a candy store and I don't think this poster was asking for such.

As an 007AP, I prefer the Yankee's proverbs over the idealistic generosity:

"silence is golden, eloquence is silver, & loose lips sink ships."

First, build a time machine. When it's ready to go, get back to us.

adhoc KNOWS somethin'!

Shucks, even low limit poker online is so much more profitable than small stakes counting... comparisons are rather nutty.

Then again, counters are a nutty bunch.

If you're looking for pitch games, skip the DD and go straight to single deck. Northern Nevada probably still has some great games.

Nonetheless, counting is really, really dated. If you're into the retro vibe, so be it. I'm still partial to a good lava lamp. But times have changed. And if Kenny was around today, he'd be playing poker.

Best,
Syph