Legally and undetectable to the pit boss, I can bias the game for you, if you're a toker, or against you, if not. Some of us can't -- I can. And we're whores -- only in it for the money (or maybe getting laid). Any opinions?
I guess this would makes sence that there are toke whores, I mean there are plenty of comp whores out there, me I'll take what I can get but I'm not even a red chipper so that's that. Anyway as a dealer are there any clues that would tip off a player as to "tip me a bit and I'll see what I can do". Obviously it would have to be so subtle that it could be taken as small talk in a court and not baiting of some sort. A manurism perhaps? Right now sadly I don't tip, aside from the drink girls anyway, they get tips. My betting level just doesn't allow it.
However if I was betting a little heavier then I'd probably place a bet for the dealer on a high count with a max bet out. Dealing more rounds is something that most dealers should be able to do, they get some cut discression depending on the casino but I can't think of much else that wouldn't be considered cheating. Maybe you can enlighten me on that.
If a dealer can bias the game either way it does throw the math off a bit and in my case would hurt my EV. If I saw a dealer giving better treatment to a tipper then he'd be capable of shorting me somehow and I'd probably look for another table.
Legal ways a dealer can help a player include better penetration, failing to call checks play, quieting down a ploppy when they start questioning an AP's index play deviations, lying to the PC about an AP's win or ability, etc.
Unfortunately, the going rate for this "help" is a bit steep by my standards. This type of help may increase a black chip players EV by 5%. So with an average bet of $100, an EV of maybe $100 an hour, a Black Chip Player might get an extra $5 an hour from this help. Most dealers do not consider a $5 tip once every hundred hands to be sufficient from a player who is averaging $100 a hand. Tipping any more makes this a negative EV proposition.
At an extremely high count, you have about a 2% advantage.
So the dealer is nice and gives you an extra round and you bet $100.
What is the extra 'profit' the dealer has just given you? 2 bucks.
You think he will be happy with a 50% tip? Throw 'em a buck and find out.
If the dealer is overtly cheating for you, you could get roped in to a legal problem when the casino accuses you of being in on the scam. Cheating is not taken lightly in Vegas, you could be looking at prison time.
Dealer mispays you, or pays you on a loser? If the eye catches it, it might be up to you to prove you weren't working with the dealer. See above.
DA if you're talking about mechanics, I'll pass. I don't need that kind of problem.
I have no problem tipping, but many dealers expect too much. I won't be tipping a green chip every time I win a few hundred dollars--and many dealers expect us to tip that way.
If you want the money, I suggest trying another career move. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I've come across some serious toke hustling dealers in my day, and if I had to lower myself to that type of behavior, I couldn�t look at myself in the mirror.
I agree with SOTSOG's comments above. What kind of "bias" can an honest dealer possibly offer, that's worth the giveaway of money? It's rare that tipping improves game conditions. Double Agent says it's "legal." I'd need to know more before I'd offer to give away money.
Double Agent may be that one in a thousand dealers who knows anything about advantage play. Not to be disrespectful, but most dealers don't even know simple basic strategy.
And we're whores -- only in it for the money ...
Of course. Why else would you suffer the indignities dealers have to put up with every day, and the unpleasantness of working for casino management types? I don't believe that any of us here think that dealers work for the "job satisfaction."
My own general tipping comments, which have been posted before:
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TIPPING STRATEGIES FOR NEW PLAYERS, by LVBear584
One of the most frequently asked questions by newcomers concerns tipping the dealer.
The answer that many experienced players give is simple: �DON�T TIP AT ALL.�
There are pros and cons to this answer, however, so we�ll address various scenarios involving different types of players. You can determine which scenario best fits your situation.
For players who play short sessions and move around from casino to casino frequently (�hit and run� playing method), there is no reason to tip. This style of play is based on the casino not remembering you from session to session. Therefore, any perceived �advantage� you may gain from tipping is eradicated by the very fact that they don�t remember you next time, anyway.
Some believe that tipping will improve playing conditions, such as the dealer increasing penetration. While there are very rare exceptions, this is usually a fallacy. Most dealers will not even make the connection between your occasional tip and better penetration. Asking for it outright and offering to tip in exchange for it borders on collusion with the dealer, which could get you and the dealer into serious legal trouble, if anyone wanted to make an issue of it. Also, the dealer could mention your request to the pit, which would immediately mark you as a knowledgeable player. The average ploppy doesn�t know anything about penetration and has no reason to care about it.
RED CHIP AND LOW GREEN CHIP PLAYERS, which covers the vast majority of new players, really cannot afford to tip much, if anything. It�s very easy to fall into the habit of tipping. At this level of play, it must be avoided, or a winner can easily turn into a loser.
Tipping just consumes too much of the profit derived from playing blackjack at the red chip or low green chip level. Even if you actually were able to get an extra round dealt because of the tip, the cost of the tip will frequently be more than the Expected Value of the hand. Let�s assume an advantage of 2% on the next hand, that would have been shuffled away without the tip. With a $100.00 bet, the Expected Value of the hand is about $2.00. If you tip $1.00, you�ve given away half the Expected Value. What�s the point?
It may sound cheap, but just don�t do it. At the red or low green chip level, tipping as a form of �cover� is just too expensive. At this level, you can�t afford much �cover� at all, certainly not just giving away money.
GREEN CHIP PLAYERS, if you�re spreading 1-8, the $1.00 tip with your $200.00 max bet will look silly, and may insult and anger the dealer. Tipping more than $1.00 again may eliminate most of the Expected Value of the hand.
Many dealers feel that they�re �entitled� to tips, and to them, a small tip is worse than no tip at all. With no tip, they may just think you�re ignorant of tipping, which is just what you want them to think.
If you play at the same places often, maybe, MAYBE tip a dollar somewhere along the line; such as once every two or three sessions. Certainly no more than that.
A pleasant personality and polite demeanor at the tables will win you more �points� with dealers and pit staff than tipping. Remember that dealers have to put up with players whining when they lose, cursing, throwing cards, generally obnoxious drunken behavior, etc. Always being polite and pleasant, even in your losing sessions, will make you appreciated in your regular casinos.
When you move up to heavy green action or above, the tipping issue becomes more important, as most high-roller ploppies tip. When you reach that level of play, you will have to decide how tipping fits into your overall �act.� At that level of play, you will also need some �cover,� at which time tipping (modestly) may be helpful as a form of �cover.�
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There are other experienced players with different viewpoints.
Difficult subject...
Earlier posts talk of greater penetration - that's hard and, I feel, obvious. I find that I'll reward a dealer for an early shuffle. I usually play double deck. During negatives I can hit the bathroom once an hour, I have an eyedrop routine once an hour, my cell phone happens to vibrate once an hour and about once an hour I might say to the dealer - "damn I just can't win this deck, lets shuffle" or "gee three blackjacks that hand, probably none left, lets shuffle" - if they do it, that's a good time for my hourly toke - or at a dealer change when they both see it.
I found a dealer a few years ago who found a subtle way to cheat for the player. That night, the dealer probably "gave" me about $200, and I tipped a total of about $30 ($5 x 6) in about an hour. The dealer needs to be creative in order to make it last.
It is possible that a dealer is giong down for cheating and instead of getting one of his team members caught he's trying to make you a patsy. While I certainly don't want to get cheated getting put in jail for a few bucks doesn't sound like a good idea.
someone I knew got an offer like that from a dealer. The method used was for the dealer to take over the player's hitting and standing to some extent. So the player busted less, and the dealer busted more.
As long as the player just went along, things worked out. If the player was obviously calling for a hit or stand, then the dealer had to do it so that the cameras wouldn't catch it.
So you say you won't toke a green every few hundred dollars WON. That makes it 10% or less of WINNINGS, not merely action. Would you tip a GOOD waiter or waitress serving you a meal less than 10% of the price? Of course not -- good customers tip around 15% if satisfied with the service.
Some posts question the legality. Shuffling up is one example of legally helping or hindering. About 10% of dealers are counters themselves -- not 1 out of 1000. We know when to shuffle and when not to.
I agree, dealing is not a good career choice -- I'd rather own the casino. Maybe someday, but it won't be a place counters will like.
I didn't expect any converts from my original post, and I wasn't disappointed, but it was interesting reading the responses.
How about your plumber, electrician, painter, or furnace repairman? Those are examples of people who provide services. How much do you tip them?
Want to be able to change your oil and get a tune up anytime, no matter how backed up the shop is?
What that special cut of meat at the Grocery?
Never wait for a table at the resturant?
TIP EVERYBODY!!!!
A traffic cop giving you a warning usually takes a tip for his services in a manner that is not in the way it is intended.
Save your tip for the Judge.
