Tip fund - everyone wins!!

Counters, as a rule, don't like to tip. This is understandable because of the thin margin. Well, I like to tip, but not with my own money.. here's how I have done it for several years now. If you spend any time in a casino, you can't help but receive match plays, cage comp coupons, funny money chips, bonus blackjack coupons, etc.. you can't lose on these items, hard to lose even in the short run. years ago i began funding what i call my "tip fund". it began with a $50 "cash at the cage coupon"... i realize it's my money once its in my pocket, but I like to tip for all the obvious reasons you are aware of. i play match plays with money i have accumulated in the fund (no risk to me). after the "fund" reached $500. i now only put 50% of the bonus in the fund and keep the other half for myself for mad money. remember, i am only speaking of cash, not room or food comps. the usual 5 day gambling trip provides me with about $50 - $100 tip money that i spread around thinly, but its the thought that counts :).
we are not always talking nickels and dimes here. Last year I was in on a slot tournement (never play the slots, but 3 nights free came along with the free tourney entry). the tourney took 40 minutes of my time one day and 30 the next. Would you believe I freakin' won $1000 for third place? $500 for me and $500 for the boy's fund.
To make a long story even longer, that tip fund in the cookie jar is bulging, i get needed cover and everyone is happy!!
BB

.....Are you a dealer in a casino, perhaps? This almost sounds like a ploy to get extra tips for "the boys", using your words.

...Well, I like to tip, but not with my own money...

...i realize it's my money once its in my pocket, but I like to tip for all the obvious reasons you are aware of.

Hmmm, I'm really not "aware of any obvious reasons to tip". Again, your words smack of a toke-hustling dealer. Trust me, I've heard them many times before. And since it really is "my money", I would rather spend it on myself, thankyaverymuch.

And one more thing, in the event I might be wrong in my assumption:

Your statements tend to contradict one another, IMO. If you already know that "it's your money once it's in your pocket", then how can you say that you aren't tipping "with your money"? No matter how you try to justify toking with it, it is still YOUR money in the first place.

If you really are considering AP play, I would suggest that you rethink your strategy on tipping. Most of the time, you can never give the dealers enough. If you tipped them a black chip on a 1K win, they would still think you owed them.

.....If I'm wrong in my thinking, kindly correct me, but so far this smells fishy to me.

JMO,
drumz1

To skeptical drumzl:

Not that I owe you a reply, but it's memorial day and I have nothing better to do.
No, I am not a "tip-hustling dealer" nor do I have any business relationships with any gaming company or dealer labor union.

You have never heard of any obvious reasons for tipping? Let me name a few. Camoflage under heat, getting dealer to provide deeper penetration, nice to have dealer on your side when house makes a mistake (sometimes even when you make a mistake). Ever pocket winnings? Nice if the dealer doesn't mention it to the suits when you leave the table.

My money, their money...whose money am I tipping? You missed my point.

Am I considering AP play? I have been an AP player since before you were born based on the number of years you have been married. Haven't advanced to Red 7 like you but hope to someday. (Just kidding, don't take it personally. All counts work.)

The little percentage I manage to squeeze out of the house is sufficient for my needs. I don't consider the dealer tokes a waste of money. I am not totally altruistic in that I consider the money well spent.

Next time you get to Las Vegas, email me and we can get together and discuss the game, unless you think I am a shill for Kirk Kekorian.
So you see, things are not so fishy in fishtown. No hard feelings.
BB

Like you said, you didn't have to reply, but it was nice of you to do so.

And if I am wrong in my assumptions, I truly apologize. It was just a little funny-sounding to me, the way that you worded your post. If you really are an AP, then I'm guessing you have been hustled for tokes, the same way as I (and just about every AP I know) have been in the past, thus my skepticism, and I hope you understand.

No hard feelings on my part, either.

And to each his/her own when it comes to tipping, I guess. In my case, I found that tipping really didn't raise my EV or my longevity that much. I believe that it's becoming a fallacy that tipping makes the pit look the other way. Pehaps ten years ago, it might have been different, but the stores and critters are all so paranoid nowadays, it is my opinion that you will be watched, no matter what, if you are winning at the table. And keep in mind, this is my opinion only, YMMV.

My money, their money...whose money am I tipping? You missed my point.

I might have missed it. Having said that, I still maintain that the money belongs to YOU, and not the dealer. Hey, if you want to give away your EV, it is your business, and I'm not judging you for doing that, but as for me, I think I'll keep the money for myself, and use it for something special.

I have been an AP player since before you were born based on the number of years you have been married. Haven't advanced to Red 7 like you but hope to someday. (Just kidding, don't take it personally. All counts work.)

Well, I could take that as a compliment, I guess, so thanks for the kind words. Truth is, my face has worn out five bodies so far. I'll be old enough to collect SS in about a year, so please do me a favor and keep your day job - it's the old farts like me that need your contributions to the Fed.

:-)

And BTW, I totally agree on the various counting systems (as long as they aren't authored by Patrick or Patterson). I like Red 7 on shoe games, but sometimes will use Hi-Lo for DD or SD play.

Next time you get to Las Vegas, email me and we can get together and discuss the game, unless you think I am a shill for Kirk Kekorian.

So you see, things are not so fishy in fishtown.

That's a deal. And to show you that I appreciate your candor, hell, I'll buy dinner. After all, I kept my money for something special, right?

:-)

Regards and apologies,
drumz1

You are more sympathetic than many dealers I've come across so I will try and keep this to the point.
AP's are aware of the potential benefits of tipping, but generally speaking the gains from tipping aren't justifiable. It is not a personal thing, it is just business. I'm sorry, but sheer survival for card counters these days neccessitates a no-tipping policy. Many dealers are exploited, I know, but I am not the guy doing the exploitation.

On an economic level I would have more respect for dealers who unionized themselves and took the fair share the casinos don't pay them, rather than expect us to subsidize them. I would probably make a donation to any such organization which promote dealer's rights, equivalent to many years of non-tipping in US casinos and then some.
Have you considered doing this?

Agreed, tipping is not required, not only dealers, but waitresses, taxi cab drivers and a million other service people. when you are served your drink at the table..the girl gets a buck, the valet brings your car and he gets a buck or two, the waitress in the restaurant gets 15% (maybe). the dealer who deals for you for an hour or more... he gets nothing. the money from my tipping does not effect my win in any way, any more than would i count any casino givaways toward my long term win (i know a lot of people that do, read comp city). i know some people that tip nobody, but they never return to the same restaurant where they stiffed the waitress.

as for donating to a charity for shoeless dealers, excuse the pun, i'll make a donation if you make one to G.A.

BB

Agreed, tipping is not required, not only dealers, but waitresses, taxi cab drivers and a million other service people. when you are served your drink at the table..the girl gets a buck, the valet brings your car and he gets a buck or two, the waitress in the restaurant gets 15% (maybe).

Let me give you some illustration of an AP mindset-I don't tip these people either. In fact I tip them less nothing. These people get kickbacks for all kinds of things-taxi drivers will often drive you to particular hotels which give them a cut. I will try and hustle 50% of the cut.

So, you can see it is futile trying to get people like me to tip. There is only one motivation for an AP: to make as much money as possible in the shortest time. We are financial sociopaths. You can't appeal to our better nature because we don't have one.

In the film Wall Street the character Gordon Gekko says "If you want a friend, buy a dog". An AP wouldn't pay for a dog. He would try and hustle an unwanted mutt for free and then charge the pet shop owner for freeing up storage space.

"I don't tip them either"

"there is only one motivation for an AP: to make as much money as possible in the shortest time. We are financial sociopaths. You can't appeal to our better nature because we don't have one."

I had a feeling this would be your reponse. You sure made a fool out of me.

BB

I didn't mean to cause you any offense.

You know what is the problem with dealers ?

You don`t tip them at all and they get mad at you.
You tip them once or twice the hour and they think it`s not enough.
You tip them correctly after a winning session and they make you feel cheap.
NO MATTER how you tip them they are NEVER satisfied.

What`s my incentive to give you some of my EV and get that ugly, never satisfied look ? When saying no to a working girl at the bar, she stays more polite than most of you.

Thank you very very very much siirrrr...

"You have never heard of any obvious reasons for tipping? Let me name a few. Camoflage under heat, getting dealer to provide deeper penetration, nice to have dealer on your side when house makes a mistake (sometimes even when you make a mistake). Ever pocket winnings? Nice if the dealer doesn't mention it to the suits when you leave the table."

drumz has been playing plenty long enough to have heard of these...AND every other lamebrain reason out there. Personally, those points are vastly overrated, IMHO.

IF I tip, it is a very small one early in the session to get the dealer "on my side". This don't always accomplish the desired results, either. The only other time I tip is when I NEED to project the "happy" gambler act when PC is present, and then, very infrequently.

"My money, their money...whose money am I tipping? You missed my point."

I don't think drumz missed the point, at all. I believe you missed HIS! At no time when the money goes south are we "playing" on "their" money. When I put it in my pocket, it is MINE, I repeat....MINE!

You may do what you please with YOURS, but...please, don't tell me I'm playing with "their" money when it's in my pocket.

Regards,
PM