This is why we'll never be rid of 6:5 BJ

A friend of mine (with a graduate business degree) comes home from a recent gambling trip. I ask him how it went, and it turns out that he ended the trip up quite a bit for his $$ level of play. He doesn't count, but he is a pretty smart guy. He tells me about how he found a single-deck BJ game that was the "deal of the casino". "The only problem was that it paid 6:5, but that's no big deal - just the tip on my next beer."

THIS IS THE REASON WE'LL NEVER BE RID OF 6:5!!!!!

Here is a smart guy who got sucked in, and didn't think it was that big of a deal. People have been conditioned to think Single Deck = Beatable Game. The public simply has no frame of reference for what SD is worth vs 6:5. This is a simple economics principle - change more than one variable, and you can adjust the price disproportionately compared to what either attribute would individually be worth.

Arrrrrrgh!!!!!!

why he thought it was the "deal of the casino"? Didn't he realize he can find that game most anywhere?

99% of gamblers are suckers and go bonkers in the casino, regardless of their education or status.

The casino knows this and takes full advantage. The politicos are happy because they get more tax money to waste.

6.5 is here to stay just as Mindplay is her to stay.

I do figure that in the future the AP junkies will convince themselves that 6.5 is beatable so they won't have to face the reality of ending their addiction to playing. Just look at those playing the 6 and 8 deckers with mediocre rules and pen. Sad.

There will be fewer and fewer, beatable, BJ games left to play forcing this entire counting community to face imminent obsolecence.

Why do you think SW is now into Craps and dice control? As far as that goes all the casino has to say is 3 words, "Hit The wall"! There goes the dice control.

I

Business smarts and street smarts are often two totally different beasts. Whilst some who have an excellent business brain struggle to find the true 'deals' in the casinos, those with street smarts are plugging away at the games that really pay.

There has to be a certain proportion of suckers out there or the game would have died at the first hurdle. But when someone wises up even a small percetage of suckers things the economics involved change fast.

He doesn't make frequent gambling trips, so he may not have seen it before.

There certainly is a difference between "Street Smarts" and "Book Smarts". I didn't mean to imply that BECAUSE he is Book Smart he should catch onto something faster than someone who is Street Smart.

It just seemed relevant that here is someone capable of thinking this through logically, and he DIDN'T see the huge difference (whether immediate or at a later time).

6:5 games are just about always the lowest minimums for blackjack in the casino. I would rather see the games not offered at all, yet they hang on because of the low minimums I believe.

this since the 60's. Maybe beatable blackjack will be dead one day, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. It will be around for the next 10 to 15 years.

I believe Stanford has said he is bored with blackjack and is probably looking for other challenges.

Since the goal of ploppies is to sit there as long as they can, they are actually better off at the higher minimum table that has real blackjack; they will not lose as quickly. But to try to explain this to them is usually futile.

There are untold millions of examples of people who are great at their profession, make tons of money and then go to a casino and play 6/5, roulette,slots, carnival games or just regular blackjack with no clue. This helps to keep the casinos bottom line in tack but, as we all know, they are greedy and say if these guys will play these games, let's see if they will play something worse. As long as they play the games get worse till there is a reaction and so far the public has not stopped playing.

Played at a table with a ploppy this past weekend. A computer engineer who works as a consultant throughout the world, so I guess he is good at his job. Gives everyone advice all the time and never once was he correct.
Only split 4's against a 4, double against 5 & 6.
Never split 9's against anything.
Never ever (what he called the worst play many people make), double soft 18.
Never double vs a 2.
Many others but my favorite was this: If you split aces and get another ace, do not split again. He actually told the man to stay on two? vs a dealer 7 instead of splitting where in fact he would be hitting 2 11's vs 7, and the guy listened to him. When the guy lost both bets he asked me what I thought (hate to give advice on the table but in this case the pit would have told him what I did), so I said, I think 2 11's have a much better chance of beating a 7 then staying on a 2.
The ploppy is a math guy at work, an idiot sharing his idiocy on the blackjack table.

There stupid plays will make our counting plays less noticeable. I think there is something to this.

This is what makes a part of dealing stressful, you hear dumbass advice such as those listed by scottklein by seemingly intelligent people. Just yesterday a lady had 4 4 vs. 2. She asked whether she should split or double. I told her "The best move is just to hit, but if you feel like you need to do something with it, your next best option is split, but I don't recommend that". Immedieatly some guy sitting a couple of spots over interjected with a very loud and obnoxious "NO, YOU'RE WRONG", He then convinced the lady to double, because "I didn't know what I was talking about". Of course I said after she doubled and caught a 3. "Don't worry you still have a third of a chance". The annoying player stood on his 2 twenties (playing 2 hands), then the other 2 quiet players made their moves, with the next card being a 10. I flipped over a 10 making 12 then pull the infamous 9. All I can do is stare down the man while taking his 2 hundred dollar bets, while the poor lady who would have made 21 on her hand also sighs and cuts the man a nasty glance. That guy never said another word after that.

The world is full of very intelligent people who are still ignorant about many things. And as smart as they are, most of them are very ignorant about advantage play. Plus other things too, I suppose. Present company excepted.

Richard, I hear dealers tell players to never split 9's, double soft 18 and always take even money. I hear this all the time.
When I double a soft 18, most dealers hesitate, as if giving me a chance to change my mind. Some of them seem surprised if I win and a few jerks make comments when I loose and it hurts to table. Some of them have dealt for a day and some for 30 years, is does not matter. Knowing how to deal and knowing how to play really have nothing to do with each other.

I think we all need to put this into perspective, especially from the ploppys' perspective.

What's the house edge in the typical 6:5 game? ~1.5%.

That compares very favorably with roulette and the assorted carnival games.

No, it's not as good as 3:2 BJ or craps, but it's a casino: you pays your money and you takes your choice.

But, as far as the general gambling public is concerned, I have to agree there will never be a big clamor to completely eliminate 6:5 blackjack because it's a comparatively good game.

From our own selfish perspective, it's very worthwhile to educate the higher end gambling public to the evils of 6:5. But if the house can make enough off of red action on the 6:5 tables, maybe they won't be so paranoid about what goes on in 3:2 games with green, black & purple action.

I believe the casinos will start comping red chip players playing 6/5 to a greater degree in the future. No to long ago a friend and I went to a casino and played two 5 hour sessions. I played at a min $25 table and was comp'd appropriately. He flat bet $10 and was not comp'd a dime. He was pissed when I told him what I received. I told him it's because he dosen't play high enough. He said that he should have been comp'd a 5 hour session at $20....

Well, with poppies accepting 6/5 it will give the casinos more latitude in comping low level betters. Actually I believe the majority of $5 min table will be 6/5 within a year.

I could be all wet, but low level bettors playing stupid games should be comp'd better than they are currently.

1. _never_ split 4's. Not against 5 or 6 or anything else.

2. _never_ hit/double a soft-18, leave it alone.

3. _never_ split 8's against 9/10/A, you get two losing hands.

4. never double a 9 except for possibly against a 5/6.

5. The previously mentioned "never split 9's"

6. fill my toke box. :)

A dealer is usually a person who gives advice either because

A: He doesn't play the game and can only rely on advice given by other players.

B: He does play the game just like a ploppy so he gives the same advice standing behind the table as he would sitting as a player.

C: He does play the game, very well in fact, knows what he's talking about, done research on the game, and can show discipline even while he's at the casino playing.

OR THE MOST LIKELY EVENT IS......

D: He may belong in either section A B or C, but he wants to be agreeable and tells you what you want to hear so he will earn his keep.

I've had to shoot a player a dirty look from time to time for jumping in mid shoe and "screwing up the cards". Of course, I know that its not true, but if I got a big tipper on the table, I'm going to do a little song and dance for 'em. If they say the table jumper screwed up the shoe than by all means I'm going to agree with them and kiss their ass a little.

Now as far as giving bad advice for the sake of this example, I usually just don't say anything otherwise if my "friend" gives bad advice. However, true, many dealers don't know what they are talking about so they will go so far as to agree with the bad advice to keep the table happy despite the downfall of one person, after all, a wrong move doesn't necessarily mean you lose that one hand.

Remember, most players, are in fact, ploppies. They really don't care much if they're ignorant about the right way to play. I can identify a player who knows what they're doing after about one or two shoes, and can usually direct that person to give the advice to the table. Anyway, every dealer is a completely different person so you can't assume anything from table to table. Identify the dealers who you like and play with them. I get my regulars who fill my table and regulars who stay far away from me.