Saw a team WARPING cards! Whoah!

I witnessed a team warping cards. They were quite good at it. The warp was subtle but enough for them to read. I saw several instances where this newly-gained information helped them to make basic strategy variations that payed off.

OK, for starters, I don't plan to attempt this (I prefer to make my advantage counting cards). However, I am curious...is this illegal? If I plop down at their table and - without engaging in any warping myself - enjoy some additional advantage to my play, is this totally unethical? Would I be booed off this site? I'm new at card counting and want to get off on the right foot.

One last human interest note....I guess I have to admit that it was exciting to see a team at work. They were pretty good, and it wasn't an all-man team either!!! During a moment when the pit boss was right there they never missed a beat and warped cards right under her nose!!! God, they were bold. And the fact that the casino may have lost a little more money that night strangely didn't bother me one bit (hehe). The whole episode must have affected me somewhat because I dreamed about it that night. Of course, all this is new to me so I have to concede that I'm impressionable.

Would love some feedback....!

I had thought about someway to slightly bend the Aces.

It used to be, before the casinos put the gizmo in that lights up, RED, to check for aces or tens, that the dealers were slightly bending the aces. A few books taught how one could cut to the ace to increase one's chances of being dealt a BJ fresh out of the first deal.

But to warp cards may be definitely viewed by the state of Nevada and the Gaming Commision as CHEATING; with stiff imprisonment sanctions and fines. After all, in Nevada gambling is one of their primary industries.

I get enough heat, why would one want to be on 'candid camera' that can magnify on you maybe 1000 X or more?

"SCOTTY BEND THEM ACES UP TO WARP 8!!!"

Warping is an illegal form of advantage play. I dare not even group it into advantage play for the sake of soiling our legal pastimes. I don't know the exact wording of the regulations, but the gist is that the player (in this case) is altering the game for the purpose of determining future outcomes.

As far as you sitting in on their grift... That could link you to them and land you in jail. Another area of concern is the fact that they may realize that you know what they are doing. More than likely these "cheaters" are not the most upstanding citizens in the country. They are liable to give you incentive to not let their little secret out. The incentive will NOT be monetary.

OK, for starters, I don't plan to attempt this (I prefer to make my advantage counting cards). However, I am curious...is this illegal? If I plop down at their table and - without engaging in any warping myself - enjoy some additional advantage to my play, is this totally unethical? Would I be booed off this site? I'm new at card counting and want to get off on the right foot.

Consider what would happend to you if they thought you were part of the team. Sure, you could probably prove your innocense, but do you really what to spend time and money doing that? I would be best to move to another table.

There are many ways to obtain an advantage that don't put yourself in jeopardy.

And the fact that the casino may have lost a little more money that night strangely didn't bother me one bit (hehe).

It should: the casino might study the tape and notice you were not only at the same table as the cheaters, but that you were counting. You might consider not going back for a while.

I guess I better steer away from any card play around this group, especially capitalizing on their grift. You're right, they did seem to be an unsavory bunch. And if they go down, I don't won't to spend my EV on lawyer's fees!!!!!
For the record, I wasn't playing at their table; rather, I was observing the action from a short distance away. Maybe it would be good advice to find another game to watch, right?
Thanks again.

OK, for starters, I don't plan to attempt this (I prefer to make my advantage counting cards). However, I am curious...is this illegal?

If you don't plan to attempt this practice, then I would simply suggest that you don't worry about it. "Curiousity killed the cat", to quote an old expression.

Best thing to do is: just play your regular AP game and stay on the legal side of the fence.

IMO,
drumz1

Bending and warping cards are common in a holdem BJ or Poker game. If the cards are too out of shape the floorman will get them changed. If its one or two players out of control the floorman will ask them to be less harsh with the cards. I've dealt Carribean Stud and find marks from people's ashes, greasy fingers (lime juice from a Corona usually), and other such markings and abuse with cards. When they get unusable they get changed. As far as blackjack where the dealer touches all the cards, you will find dealers smacking the card against the peeker harshly, so you can look for extra bowed cards, and most likely you will find that they are tens. Tens get checked every time so they get more abuse time with a wild dealer.

Whatever happened to Clarke? There was someone who knew what they were writing about, which was good, because no one else seemed to and he took a lot of heat because of that. I always thought him rather kindly and very generous with his knowledge, even if his calculations and syllogistic logic made tough reading.

Clarke, if you are reading this, we hope you're okay.

But... he did have a couple of screws loose. He was "fairly" knowledgeable... but lacked a real gamblers understanding of the game. just my opinion... but I really feel that something BAD must have happened to him as I have seen NO posts for a year or two. Maybe he found religion... or some other such nonsense. :)

It's illegal. However, it's not illegal for you to play at the same table as the cheaters. But if they can prove that you knew what was going on and were using it to make playing decisions, you're toast. It's just best to leave the table. Even if you have no intention of cheating, you may have to waste a lot of time, effort and money trying to prove your innocence.

...dealers smacking the card against the peeker...

Has anyone ever noticed if this practice is ever significant enough to create marks that are readable?