Question for the pros

I really love the game of blackjack but have to limit how much I play knowing the more I play the more of an advantage the casino has over me since I'm just a bs player.

I'm fascinated with the art of counting and other AP techniques used and while I would love to learn, I doubt I will ever find the time and probably the desire needed to learn the art to the degree needed to use in a casino.

Is there anything else a bs player can do to help his/her odds in the game of blackjack without counting?? Any little tips/tricks, information available out there for bs players that we can use that can increase our odds even the slightest bit without learning to count, or shuffle track ect. ect.

Any help would be appreciated.

... learning to avoid games with bad rules. As you are NOT counting cards or shuffle tracking, you can search for games with GOOD rules such as Late Surrender. Games that are dealt shallow sometimes offer better rules, as the casino's downside is less due to the absence of card counters. Of course, this will only minimize the casino's edge against you, resulting in it taking longer to bankrupt you. It will NOT provide you with an advantage. You may want to considr just mailing a check to the casino anavoi travel epnsOf course staying away from nonsense like progression betting or anything based on superstition is an absolute MUST.

Ultimately, overcoming your desire to "gamble" in favor of actual "advantage play" is the only goal that you ought to cultivate. Alternatively, you can take up chess or philately or jogging.

Gambling is a self-defeating and (ultimately) ruinously expensive avocation. You may want to purchase a small stack of money orders made out to your local casino and mail them one each week. This way you will save the depreciation on your car.

Just do it. Get yourself a deck of cards and learn it. You will be amazed at how easy it really is. Learn a simple High-Low count, such as:

card type.... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 X A
count value 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 -1 -1

OR

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 X A

0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 -1 -1

AND

Use the BJ training school here on this site.

I would add a couple of comments.

1. counting is not that hard. You don't have to practice 8 hours a day 7 days a week to get good at it.

2. Errors are bad, but not fatal. IE even an error-prone count will likely decrease the house advantage or even give you a slight edge, without having to get the RC/TC correct for every hand. Yes, accuracy is better. But the more you play, the more accurate you get, so that will sort of take care of itself.

3. practice will help. Of course practice helps you learn BS perfectly as well, but you already know that.

4. The only danger is that if you practice and get something wrong, and you keep practicing that way, you learn an incorrect action and it is much harder to unlearn something than to learn it right the first time.

In short, give counting a try. What can it possibly hurt? IE if you count, spread your bet to 1 unit on TC <= 2 and 2 units on TC > 2, you will narrow the house edge significantly even though you aren't modifying your playing strategy or using a risky bet spread that makes BR fluctuations swing wildly. The more you practice, the more you like it, then you can get into the "swing" of things and then you start the next phase of your "training" on avoiding detection/heat/barring.

If you try it and don't like it, and some don't as it requires some attention during a game, then you can stop and still play BS, and perhaps have a little more "feeling" about the remaining deck contents which will help some...

I am not a counter either, basic strategy brings me close enough to the house edge so that I can keep my bankroll under control. my comp rate is almost exactly breakeven with theoretical loss (based on 60 hands/hr, 20% flat bet comp, house EV 0.3-0.4%). then top that with free rooms, meals, bounceback cash and miscellaneous schwag.

the best book you can read after mastering basic strategy (but before counting) is probably Blackjack Bluebook II by Fred Renzey. He writes exclusive chapters on borderline topics such as single deck insurance, composition sensitive variations on 16 v. T , 12 v. 4 and the 'magnificent 7'. The best weapon for non-counters might be 'hand interaction', meaning buying other people's profitable splits and double downs when they choose not to do it themselves (or when they double for less and you cover the rest).

Max Rubin's "Comp City" is also a worthwhile read, detailing how players can camouflage their blackjack play in a way that can earn them higher comps than their net theoretical loss. However, the last revision of this book was in 2001 (orig. pub. 1994) and I feel that modern casinos tend to distribute comps more based on computer analysis rather than pitboss discretion, so some strategies may be outdated.

If the casino that you play at offers matchplay coupons either in advertisements or through direct mail, then it's worth pursuing those vigorously at the right price. The chances of winning an any particular blackjack hand is a little less than 50%, so you should offer to buy matchplays for a little less than half of its face value (actually, a little less than even THAT, in order to be profitable). I have purchased $25 matchplay coupons on ebay for as little as $5, for example. Also, don't be afraid of buying direct mail coupons that have other people's name on it, as most of the time the pit never bother to check ID before shoving the ticket down the slot. If the casino has a "one coupon per day" policy, then get your friends to redeem them for you if you travel together (or even give a dollar to a stranger!), or bounce around different pits and tables. It's really not a highly enforced system.

Lastly, if you want to increase your comp rate without necessarily earning more actual money, learn to play the basic video poker game of 9/6 jacks or better. the house edge of 0.46% is roughly the same as blackjack and more importantly, many casinos will comp VP players at the same rate as slot machines regardless of the difference in EV. It is relatively easy to churn $100-200 for an hour or two, cash out at or around a breakeven level, and earn yourself a free room or gourmet meal in the process. Plus, your mailbox will be jammed with future offers down the line.

I respect that nothing except counting cards will technically lead to cash profits in the long run, but there's nothing wrong with a recreational player getting his/her entertainment on the house every time.

Will add a significant amount to help limit your losses. Something like the LVA POV is a very worthwhile proposition.

Find the new dealers at the break in casinos. Their mistakes could add as much as 1% to your advantage.

You can take other player's double downs if they dont' want to do it. Also hands that shouldn't be doubled down on YOUR hand are good double downs on Other players hands. An example would be 9 vs 7up. The reason you don't double this is because you lower your odds on your original bet because you are stuck with only one card instead of hitting multiple times, but you are still more than 50 percent likely to win by doing this. That is why you convice the other person to let you double his bet, because you don't have the original out there, YOU only have the double down bet which I believe in this case has a 55% chance of winning.

Any hand that gives you OVER a 50% chance of winning you should take. Very commonly someone gets a BJ with 25 then stacks up their 12.50 on their bet for the next hand. On the next hand they get an 11. They, of course, are ready to double, but more often than not, they are too lazy to get change for the remainder 12.50. THAT is where you quickly stop the dealer and have that 12.50 ready to go, because the guy won't want to wait for YOU to get change either. Go ahead and finish off the double for him.

There are other ways like this to win at BJ without counting, I have leafed through these books at the bookstore, but haven't really paid much attention to them since I am really only interested in the mainstream counting books like Stanford Wong and the like.

I am new to counting. I spent the whole summer reading, researching, simulating, practicing. It was the best spent summer of my life. I highly recommend learning.

But if you do not want to learn to count, there is one thing that every BS player should know/do. If the first round is all tens and aces, get up and go to another table. The count is very negative. You don't need to be a counter to understand that you are now at a bigger disadvantage. This only works on the first round with lots of players.

Seldom comes up, but it always surprises me that anyone continues to play in such a situation.

"I really love the game of blackjack but have to limit how much I play knowing the more I play the more of an advantage the casino has over me since I'm just a bs player."

That's how I started some time back. Loved the game and just wanted to enjoy playing it. So I hope this helps you play a little longer and lose a little slower.

1.What you should always try to do is find a full table. This will slow play and thus slow losses. You will be able to play much longer this way.

2. Alway sit at 3rd Base. You might get a little edge by doing a round per round count. See what other players are getting. If a 10 will bust you and you see all the other players just got 10's, go ahead and hit (there are less 10's in the shoe now!) This might ease you into counting.

3. Leave tables with lightning fast dealers. Same as above, but you will find people at these tables as quite and focused. I'm thinking you like the social part also and fast tables are not social.

4. Rat-hole chips. If you get your buy-in back, put it in your pocket saying "I'm playing on your money now!". When you have to get it back out, only put 1/2. Then buy-in if you need more. Then while you play try to slip more chips away. You want to look like a bigger loser that you really are. This way you will get more comps. For this reason down play the wins and point out the losses.

5. Try a little slot action on your card and ask about slot coupons. (a little being $5 to $10 a trip) This might get you even more odd comp mailings that could help you play even more BlackJack.

Will a pro ever play again without the edge of counting? And do they still remember the little things that milk a few more hands out of a loosing game. By asking only the pro's, maybe your looking for that hard kick in the butt that motivates people to start working toward a winning edge. Just a thought...

In your number 4 suggetion, you say to slip a few chips off the table and into your pocket, because it will make you look like a bigger loser.

Well, first of all, at most casinos your wins/losses have nothing to do with your casino comp rate.

My point is, though, all it takes is the dealer or floorperson to see you pocketing 1 chip. Then you will be given credit for the rack. This means EVERY chip the table is missing you will get stuck with winning, whether you have it in your pocket or not. "Why would the dealer care?" you may ask. Its more of an annoyance than anything. The table has a certain number of chips and if the green or red continues to disappear, then the dealer will need to start converting more often. Now, that isn't hard to do or anything, but it turns into a chip juggling act after a while. The floorperson is annoyed because now he has to get off his lazy duff and get a fill for the table.

To make matters worse, if you are a regular at the casino and do this often enough, the floor will know who you are and give you the rack credit even if you don't do it on that visit.

Just a side note by the way.

I think "chip removal" is a good idea, done correctly. My "plan" in the past has been to fiddle with chips in some manner. IE "chip tricks" such as rolling or flipping, anything to get 2-3 chips into my hand all the time so it seems normal. I then on occasion reach into my shirt pocket for a tictac or lifesave (tictacs are better as they are "noisy" and I exchange one (one only) of the chips for the tictac. If you do this carefully, and not every 2-3 minutes, you can "lose" money. That lets me "buy in" for more chips later reinforcing the idea of "he is losing money" which is not the mark of a counter.

I think it wise to use every possible trick to remain outside the "box" of a counter. From paying attention to enough "outside events" to make it appear you are not paying enough attention to the cards to be able to count them, to "losing money" (into your pocket), to drinking iced tea from a glass with a lime in it (or 7up or whatever so long as you don't order it where everyone knows what it is and thinks it is just "chip remover") to making playing decisions that seem to be "gambler plays" (hit a 16 here, stand there, when the count is not favorable) to avoiding huge swings in my bet between two hands, etc.

There are lots of others of course...

Try leaving a small pile of UNstacked chips in front of you, AND a few non-adjacent stacks of 9 and 11 chips. Better yet, 19 and 21 chips.

This is a normal thing for me. Neat stacks present the wrong image, so I usually have everything jumbled together. That also makes it easier to snake out a black or green chip without it being easy to see. Of course I have to stop and "take stock" every now and then but I usually have a pretty good idea of how I am doing.

I also tend to keep my left arm on top of my jumble of chips much of the time to further hide them from scrutiny (also helps prevent a neighbor from lifting a chip when you look away too, but that is another story). :)

You've got me curious. I wouldn't do this in Vegas, but in sleepy casinos in the South, it's common to leave chips on the table when heading to the loo. Should I abandon this practice?

scarab

I've done that _many_ times (leave chips to visit the head). I've never had a problem. It seems like it _does_ happen (talking to a few friends of mine that are in casino security at a couple of the coast casinos) (I lived in Hattiesburg MS for 18 years or so working at USM, so even though the casino stuff started just as I moved to Alabama, I knew lots of people that eventually somehow ended up in casino security (ie county deputies, etc). They say "It happens more than you would think" but they did say that it was more common on really crowded nights. I never feel comfortable with someone crowding into the gap between me and the player to my left or right, however...

I think that as in most things, you simply have to keep your eyes open and your eyes open. :) You don't need to learn how to blink with one eye at a time, but caution can't hurt. With your spot open while you visit the head, the dealer can see far better than when you are there with your arms up/out/etc. Of course a quick "total" before you leave would be prudent then if anything looks "short" when you return, you can ask and hopefully the eye in the sky will have a tape of what happened, if anything.

The problem I'm concerned with is cashing in at the cage a pocket full of black and green. I often have my wife do it on another shift.

Typically I play for the length of time I am in town collecting chips and tucking them away. I hardly _ever_ put chips back into play, as I'd rather "buy in" each time, as it leaves a "loser" impression with the dealer and pit crew. I usually make a "cash in" run as we check out. Note that I generally don't win 10K+ so worrying about the IRS isn't an issue. It does occasionally cause a strange look when you turn in a collection of (say) 10 blacks and 100 greens, since they know you didn't leave a table with such a collection at one time...

If I have some 'sane' group of black or green chips, say 5 blacks or 20 greens, I might cash 'em in as I leave for the night, depending on how much cash I have on hand to buy in the next time around...

If I played every evening or even every week, I might re-think that of course, before a "pattern" was recognized.

is not a good idea unless you are wearing a jacket as surveillance looks straight down into it.