How should i play the over under 13?
Will i get an advantage playing it?
I use the Hi Lo count system.
Thanks alot!
The over/under bet is the holy grail for card counters if the penetration is acceptable. It requires a specialized count system to be exploited such as Brett Harris's Ubalo system. Forget about your regular count if you can find this rare game, the O/U is far more valuable than regular blackjack.
Thank you for the answer but im wondering where i can learn about Brett Harris's Ubalo system?
Thanks...
Yes, indeed, you can use the hi-lo count in order to determine whether to bet under or over. Though, it is not 100% accurate, and it only indicates makeing these bets on very rare occations.
/Robert V. Lux
"Yes, indeed, you can use the hi-lo count in order to determine whether to bet under or over. Though, it is not 100% accurate, and it only indicates makeing these bets on very rare occations."
I know that Wong discusses the O/U in PBJ, and I thought that he said the Hi Lo index was fairly low (note that the index is both positive and negative). I would not call this a case of very rare occassions since you can bet at either the positive or negative index. I could be wrong about the index, though since I don't have my copy of PBJ in front of me.
WHERE IS THIS GAME BEING OFFERED?
You are right about the positive and negative situations, that one can bet either when it is very high or very low. Though, imagine what the true count must reach in either direction on order to bet. It would be close to +/-12. Now, that doesn't occur too often, does it?
/Robert V. Lux
I have my copy of PBJ down in my car and can run down and get it, but I thought the O/U index was 2 or 3. I have never seen this bet in person, but I did read the PBJ chapter that covers it and I know that SW says it is a potentially profitable bet, even with Hi-Lo (although the crush count is ideal).
Also, just conceptually, my understanding of this bet is that you win even money. Accordingly, the house edge only comes from initial 2 card totals of 13. It doesn't seem like it would take much of a swing in the TC (either way) to overcome this edge. Does anyone have a copy of PBJ in front of them? If not, I will look it up in about 5 hours.
I did some quick numbers on Notepad and came up with these odds (for single-deck):
Under 13..... 44.947%
Exactly 13..... 8.446%
Over 13..... 46.606%
Emil didn't specify the game he was playing, but in a single-deck game, removing just two 3s from play gives an off-the-top advantage on the over-13 wager. The numbers, assuming 2450 (50 * 49) possible non-order-specific combinations:
Under 13..... 43.020%
Exactly 13..... 6.531%
Over 13 ..... 50.449%
Obviously, it doesn't require an illegal act to ensure that two 3s are kept out of play. A third 3, or an additional A or 2, would increase your odds on the Over-13 wager even more. Ideally, you'd prefer to cut a 2 out of play, leaving the Aces for your blackjacks.
I encourage anyone to confirm these numbers before accepting them as gospel. :)
Robert,
Just to clarify, Stanford Wong in PBJ says that you should bet this side bet at Hi-Lo counts "greater than +5 (over) and less than -6 (under)." I am not real clear what he means by "greater than +5". Does this mean 5.1 or 6.0. Either way, it looks like we were both wrong (I said 2 or 3 and you said 12). I don't know whether you would classify this as "very rare occassions", or not, but I routinely encounter these types of counts during a session (frequency depends on # of decks, pen, etc).
For the record, Mr Wong also says that Hi Lo is not well suited to this bet and recommends using the Crush count. Also, he does say thaat this bet is potentially very profitable. If SW says it, then as far as I am concerned, it is right.
Coug Fan
Of course SW is correct. God is never wrong :-) I must have been thinking of something else while writing the specific numbers. My fault.
Best regards, Robert V. Lux
