Oklahoma
Is anyone on here playing in Indian casino's in Oklahoma?
Is anyone on here playing in Indian casino's in Oklahoma?
Friends and I play weekly at Comanche Nation Games casino in SW Oklahoma. Six-deck shoe, 1.2 deck penetration, resplit to four hands, double after split, resplit Aces once, no surrender. $2, $5 and $25 minimum tables; maximum $50 on $2 table, $100 on others. Pay a commission to house on each hand - 25 cents on bets up to $5, 50 cents on $6-$99, and $1.00 on $100. You must join the blackjack "players club" at $5 per year to play (no Class III gaming allowed in Oklahoma, so the "club" rule makes it legal). Also, the house does not back the game so your winnings come out of a pool of other players' losses; and, there is a quarterly tournament for club members where you get 1 chip for each hour of play, plus you may buy 50 chips for $50. Last tournament paid about $3,000 to the first player out on the final table, up to about $60,000 for the winner. All in all, it is a pretty decent game -- just realize you're paying about $15 to $30 per hour juice to the house in commissions. The dealers are knowlegable and friendly, and it is a nice place to unwind and relax with friends. Also, if you're a card counter, there is no heat (unless you're just horribly obvious) since the house does not back the game. My biggest complaint is the terrible ventilation in the building and the overwhelming cigarette smoke. If you have breathing difficulties, you can't make it more than a couple of hours
My undestanding is other tribal casinos in the state have about the same rules.
The game you describe is not "all in all, a pretty decent game." All in all, I could't imagine finding a game a lot worse than that. In short, it's terrible, horrible, unplayable, trash, sucker game, etc.If that is your only choice and you are compelled to gamble, I'd suggest the slot machines.
Any game that requires you to a pay a "per hand" commission is automatically a sucker game. Deal me in!
Who's going to bet $100?
There are better rules in Oklahoma and certain situations that can be exploited. For the most part, Oklahoma BJ shouldn't be played. For the record, the lousy slots in Oklahoma make the lousy BJ look great. They have never publicised there payouts on slots but I would guess them to average 80 to 85%. So I won't be taking any advise to play the slots.
in Oklahoma Indian casinos applies to every Indian casino in the USA, as far as I know. There are no regulations that can be enforced, no advertising about percentage payoffs on ANY slots, and basically no backup for the slot players at any level. Makes you wonder if the people who swarm into these joints will ever catch on as to how they are being ripped off.
The state governments don't talk about any of this because of the huge campaign donations from the tribes, but I cannot understand why someone at the Federal level does not speak out against this huge money-grabbing scheme by the Indian casino management companies (who usually are not Indians, but "investors"). So far, the only major article I have seen is the cover story in TIME magazine dated 12-15-2002.
The OK casino's are a joke. I'm guessing that by the time the money gets to the "investors", a lot of other people have already dipped their hand in the pot and taken their share. I know a lot of dealers are crooked and I would guess that other personnel and mgmt are definately getting a piece of the pie as well.
Find a place with $25 min 300-500 max. and not crowded. Back count to your heart's content ("I'm waiting to see how hot you are"). Wong in at +4 TC with one max and parlay to two spots max if count stays high or you can start with two spots max(hilo/5of6 decks dealt/s17/doa/das/rsa/ls). Don't play unless they have surrender. If count goes negative, don't play, just sit there for a few hands to see if the + returns. What are they going to do, bar you? They really don't care. Their money is in the collection. Don't ever make small "waiting" bets hoping the count goes positive. The vig will eat you alive very quickly. Strategy works well with a partner and joint bank. So you sit at the same table, so what? Grab those high cards and get the hell out. They can discuss, whine and whimper all they want after you are gone. And don't be shy about coming back. PS - leave a decent toke, win or lose. Your longevity and their tolerance level will than be assured. Remember, it ain't their money (except of course for the occasional skim that may or may not happen - wink, wink, nudge, nudge.)
Variance is high so have the BR to back you up.
As for so called "slots", from an insider I learned that Okie's 80-85% payout is closer to 60-70%. Also beware, I've been told by same insider that one of the slot manaufacurers that distributes to Ok Indian tribes can't get a Nevada licsense. Heresay, but I wouldn't doubt it.
Reuben
I don't doubt the 60-70%
The big problem with your theory about backcounting is it is hard to find a table that isn't busy and the highest denomination table I've found was $250. It can be done but it is a lot or risk(Bank Roll) and time for little reward.
Okie
The so-called slots are not actual reel slots or video poker machines, they are glorified pull-tabs. You put your money in, hit the spin button, the reels line up and a bar-coded tab comes out that tells you how much you won. In actuality the bar-coded tab tells the machine what reels to line up to match the pre-determined payout on the tab. Video poker is even worse -- the tab tells the reels what hand to display and that's it, you can't hold cards and draw. They're just pull-tab machines made to look like slots. But, they're packed every night.
Not only "deal me in," the tables are so packed, they're opening another casino a few miles down the Interstate near the Texas border.
What do you mean, you can't hold cards and draw? Sure you can, although you will very rarely win in the Indian casinos.
AB
He has probably only seen the STUD VP game that some casino's offer. He's probably not aware of the draw poker.
