Niagara Falls NY

Does any one know about the conditions at the new (since Jan) Seneca Casino? How does it compare with the CDN side? Tip for clearing out more space at the table; Cough, then say "I'm from Toronto"

Hi Tom,

Rules are same as Casino Niagra.
-All 8 decks
-DAS
-no RSA
-8 minus 1.75 average penetration.

Always 15 dollar table available, even on peak. Almost always 10 dollar table available. Didn't see any five dollar tables, even on the weekday evening. Don't know table limits early on weekdays.

Penetration is considerably better than Canada. Beatable games currently exist here. Average penetration 6 to 6.5 decks(or a little better). The main thing to consider at this casino is the inconsistency in penetration. You can find a %75 penetration game at Casino Niagra just about anytime. They exist here also, but with a bit of table shopping you can do much better.

These kind of inconsistencies are the hallmark of new midwest casinos. You may want to take advantage of the dealers that deal deep before the inevitable influx of consultancy/employee performance ultimatums takes place. I will predict that this place has lousy penetration before the new year.

You may recognize many of the dealers here as expatriates from Casino Niagra. Stay away from these people. For one, they are used to placing shallow cut cards. Secondly, there are plenty of American dealers here still learning their jobs. This can add more to your bottom line than the fact that they deal slowly (wink, wink... nudge, nudge). Just be sure to tip them if they tip you first!

Seneca had very poor advertising in Cleveland, where I am from. I didn't even hear of it's existence until the middle of April. So, I went out there the minute I heard of it. On a Tuesday, the first time I was there, I found two dealers that were cutting only one deck off eight. "This is freakin' exellent", I thought. Made $500 in 6 hours spreading 1 to 10 at $10 tables.

My second trip was on a weekend. Late Sunday morning until early that afternoon. I saw all sorts of penetration between a little over one deck to a little over two decks. Expect an average of 1.75 cut off the shoe. Lost almost all of it back on this trip.

So, if you're in the neighborhood, don't even bother with Casino Niagra, if only on principal. They are tyrants. I could sincerely write volumes about how they have exploited their "Only Game in Town" status. This will change as competition increases. The Gateway Project on the Canadian side, and two(I think) more American Casino licences will serve the public well.

Be conscientious of exchange rates if you are Canadian. Remember, a %1 rate discrepancy can void your advantage. As an American I found the only way around this is to keep separate stakes. I'm sure you're an intelligent person, so just be sure and do the math.

Also, unless you are old, fat or have a disability, you can easily walk to the American casino from the Canadian side. The mom-and-pop motels are dirt cheap in Canada... depending on the season.

One last thing... and this is really odd for a Midwest joint. They actually comp you alcohol while you are playing. This is illegal in Ontario. And, as far as I know, it's the only Northern Midwest casino that does this.

Good cards to you Tom....

-Felix

Penetration at Seneca Niagara Casino is required to be "about" 75% per compact with the State of New York. Dealers do sometimes place deeper, however shoe is marked where cut card is to be placed. Penetration won't get worse, because of requirement. Any violation can be reported to the New York State racing and wagering board on site.

$5 do exist sometimes during the week. Last Tuesday saw 7 $5 tables in place at one time, however they quickly disappear if business warrents. No grandfathering in either.

Resplit only up to 3 hands per compact with the State of New York (on 7 spot tables) 4 hand resplit allowed per compact, on 6 spot table, but none currently exist.

Can play up to 3 hands however at table minimum. Example $10 table, can play $10 at up to 3 positions. Casino Niagara in Canada requires doubling the bet for 2 spots, and 5 times the bet for 3 spots.

Watch out that you don't get charged for parking. Many other properties are charging $10 to park near the casino. However parking is free right in the back of the casino (may be full on weekends) and Valet is always free.

High roller and smoke free area scheduled to open around Memorial Day. About 20 more tables to be installed in addition to the current 70+ blackjack tables.

Compact allows for another Seneca Casino to be built in Erie County, (Buffalo, New York area) which should be under construction in about 6 months. Another casino is allowed per compact on a reservation site, but that must be approved by referendum on the Indian Nation, and that is not expected to occur till about 3 years.

The reason that Seneca Niagara Casino didn't advertise much is that they were trying to get their feet on the ground first. Casino construction was less than 4 months! (from time of approval by New York's Governor Pataki till opening!) Construction crews worked 24/7 on the project.

Is Seneca still all 8 deck as it was when I was there in late January? The service and food were excellent then, but the 21 was like watching grass grow!

You can view the Compact at www.sni.org. Scroll down to the bottom of the first page and click on view compact. You must have a Adobe Acrobat reader, and be prepared to wait about 5 minutes to download. It is in a read only format, and is over 700 pages long. The rules for Blackjack are in appendex A and is about 40 pages in length.

Note that the inclusion of the word "Surrender" on page 69 section 8 is a typo, because there are no pocedures outlined in the compact to have it. Surrender is not permitted at Seneca Niagara Casino. I got this information from the New York State Racing and Wagering Board, Mr. Robert Williams.

There are 4 tables with 5 deck CSM, but all other tables are 8 deck. Dealers are much faster now, they were all new employees in January. They keep hiring more dealers due to employee shortages though, so there are some slow ones around.

Food is still good, drinks are free, and the Blackjack games are much faster.

Thanks for the detailed info on Seneca. Going there this week. Good cards to you.

I have no idea where to view the compact that the Oneidas have with the State of New York for their Turning Stone Casino. However the phone number for the New York State Racing and Wagering Board is (518)453-8460. They should be able to direct you to it.

Check out this link, it may help find you the compact.