KO vs. HiLo

I�ve recently started counting using Hi-Lo 1. I can keep a running count accurately enough; however, I�m intimidated by the next step converting to a true count. I�m now considering using the KO unbalanced count to circumvent the need. I agree with the advice to play whatever system you�re comfortable and proficient at. Any guess as to how much power I am sacrificing to gain simplicity?

Second, I�ve mastered the basic strategy for the double deck game I play. The KO book uses a generic BS chart for all games. Am I better off playing a tailored BS for the game I�m playing or �dumb� my BS down to meet the calculations the book has laid out?

Thanks for any input,

If you are a casual playr who plays for an evening or two monthly; or you play frequently but for minimal stakes, your loss using an "unbalanced" count is so minimal that it is not worth considering.

However, if you are playing a two-deck game then it behooves you to memorize the correct Basic Strategy. The Best source for this is "BlackJack Attack" by Don Schlesinger, 3rd edition. Also, "Theory of Blackjack" by Peter Griffin has complete/correct Basic Strategy charts for all numbers of decks and rules of play. "Professional Blackjack" by Stanford Wong is a must-hav refrence as well. These 3 books deserve a place in your library if you really wish to learn the fine points of 21.

If keeping a true count intimidates you, then by all means, go to KO. The differences between KO and Hi-Lo are minimal. If you have already learned to count using Hi-Lo, then all you need to do is add the seven and you're good to go. It isn't too hard to do.

As for basic strategy, stick with the double-deck strategy you learned if that is the game you are playing. I haven't seen the 3rd edition of Blackjack Attack, but I don't recall seeing any basic strategy charts in the first two editions. Perhaps Don included them in the 3rd edition. Professional Blackjack has a generic basic strategy, but it doesn't break down BS for different games.

Flash is correct when he says those books plus Griffin's Theory of Blackjack are must have books for card counters. However, for a variety of basic strategies, I'd go to the Basic Strategy Engine at http://www.blackjackinfo.com/ and print out the ones you need from there.

KO is stronger than Hi-Lo for DD:

KO (pref)
EV 1.37%
SCORE 69.20
N0 14488

Hi Lo (I18)
EV 1.31%
SCORE 64.65
N0 15465

(www.bjstats.com)

Second...

A generic, composite BS for all games is fine (I believe the max disadvantage was about .025% or something):

Uniform Strategy with Card Counting
http://www.deepnettech.com/article2.html

Best,
Syph

Hi,

If you take a look at Blackjack Attack, you might get the impression than KO is inferior to Hi-Lo. The only problem is that those calculations were not done using identical indices. I know Don wanted to compare the full advertised versions so that is why he did this. The KO preferred system doesn't split 10's and those indices are near the top (I think they are #4 and #5) of importance of the Illustrious 18. So automatically K-O is handicapped by that. If you don't ever plan on splitting 10's (and I don't) why would you look at comparisons of systems where KO doesn't even have the benefit of using that option?

So, I ran some simulations of my own over the weekend using my very crude SAGE software. I used optimal betting ramps but NO INDICES WERE USED for a true apples to apples comparison. IN all but poorly penetrated 8 deck games, K-O equaled or bested Hi-Lo. So, from a casual players perspective, the choice is clear.

Good luck.

Thank you for the input. KO feels like it will be a good fit for me.

The BS chart for the game that I play (DD, DAS, H17,DOA w/about 60% pen) came from www.wizardofodds.com. I consistantly get 100% using the strategy trainer on www.blackjackinfo.com. I have picked over several reputable web sites and read a few books. I just finished Blackjack Secrets and KO Blackjack. Professional Blackjack is on my nightstand.

I've read quite a bit about ROR and overbetting your bankroll but I'm just not getting it. To date I've played $10-$15 hands (flat bet while learning to count in the casino) with a session bankroll of between $100-$200. I've gone home broke more than once. (My last two trips turned $100 into over $1300) Overall, I've built around a $1000 total bankroll and now that I'm getting better at counting I would like to start spreading my bets. From what I've read I only have enough bankroll to play a $3 table w/1-5 spread and even then I still have a high ROR. KO said I need $10,000 to play a $10 bet w/ 1-5. My table of choice has a $10 min. Does a 1-3 spread allow me to play at my table of choice or do I need to just grin and bear the high ROR? Any suggestions would be helpfull.

check out Fred Renzeys KISS Count detailed in Blackjack Bluebook II
good luck-
grift

hi bkedman-
check out this website;
www.hitorstand.net
it's great.
grift

I've read quite a bit about ROR and overbetting your bankroll but I'm just not getting it... Overall, I've built around a $1000 total bankroll and now that I'm getting better at counting I would like to start spreading my bets. From what I've read I only have enough bankroll to play a $3 table w/1-5 spread and even then I still have a high ROR...Does a 1-3 spread allow me to play at my table of choice or do I need to just grin and bear the high ROR? Any suggestions would be helpfull.

Well this depends on that 1K...is that extra money that you've been lucky enough to win? Or is it money that took you some time to accumulate? How will it affect you if you lose it all?

If the 1K is easily replaced, and you don't mind losing it all, I say find the best game and play as optimally as possible. Which means a bigger spread than 1-5 at a DD game, at least a 1-6 spread. Then hope to get lucky, and expect to lose it all.

If you can't comfortably risk the 1K, then practice, study, and save for a bigger BR.