is this online BJ game worth pursuing?

Hello Friends,
I found a BJ game online that looks like it might be worth pursuing. Ignoring the bonus hustling aspect for a moment, no offense Rob McGarvey, is this game worth playing:
6 decks
DAS
Dealer stands on S17
Split cards once only to form two hands
Hit split aces once only
Double on any first two cards
Early surrender vs dealer Ace or Ten
Dealer does not check for blackjack, double down and split bets are lost if dealer has blackjack.
Penetration varies from 47 to 52% depending on how you play.

YOu can play multiple hands, total of 5 hands each round for 10 rounds, I calculate (using 2.7 cards per hand) that this is a penetration of 51.9% (10 rounds, 5 player hands, 1 dealer hand, 2.7 cards per hand = 162 cards / 6 decks of 52 or 312 cards = 51.9%)

Or, you can play heads up vs the dealer for 24 rounds, then play one round of 5 hands, I calculate (using 2.7 cards per hand) that this is a penetration of 46.7% (24 rounds, 1 player hand, 1 dealer hand, 2.7 cards per hand, 1 round 5 player hands, 1 dealer hand, 2.7 cards per hand = 145.8 cards per hand / 312 cards = 46.7%)

I haven't tried other combinations of hands per round, i am assuming that the penetration will be somewhere around 50%.

I wrote a program that keeps three counts, a playing efficiency count, a betting correlation count and an insurance correlation count, the program tells me the bet size for the next bet, and the hit/stand/double/split/surrender/insurance decisions to make. The program also has a Wonging indicator which tells me to Wong out at TC of -1 or less. Wonging out is easy, just go back to the lobby.

Before I invest a lot of time playing this game I wanted to get everyone's opinion on if it is worth while.

Initital testing doesn't look promising. The TC range is rarely high enough to make more than a table minimum bet, and rarely low enough to Wong out. It does seem possible to hold one's own against this game, however, so maybe it is a candidate for aggressive bonus hustling, although I'm not a big fan of that approach. Rob McGarvey probably has something to say about that aspect!!

Thanks,
Steve

with this game in a real casino or a phony casino.

is expectation too low? If so, what is it? I'm not sure what a "phony" casino is.

Steve

If you can turn a positive player edge, then it is worth it. I think first, though, you have to have the math done on it before you attempt to exploit such a thing. Is it automated or do you have to be there for decision making?

it's just the way I play blackjack. I'm here to gamble not to watch a dealer shuffle all the time. I'm not going to waste my time figuring out the expectaion of a bad game. At one time there were a few new (real) Casinos in the USA dealing a pathetic 3 decks out of the shoe. I use to literally laugh at them.

Eventually they loosened up and began dealing more cards.
Believe it or not, many casinos in time have actually improved conditions not worsened them.

Phony=telephone blackjack,need I say more. Maybe a little tip,gamble at your own risk.

The player has to input the cards that have been drawn. The bet sizing and play decisions are automatically produced. The player has to actually play the game based on these instructions. I could build a screen scraper and use OCR and automate play also, so that the program is a true BOT, but that is a chore I will only undertake if it is worthwhile, hence the question which started this thread.

Steve

what betting range does this place offer? Sometimes even the worst bj games can be beaten with a large enough spread. It does seem interesting if you can bet with an ultra-large spread. You got to have edge though, its useless without it. If you can get it, find out what the optimum bet is each play with the big bet being the table limit. More importantly, make sure the software is honest.

My program calculates the player's expectation before each deal and makes a recommendation for the bet size for the next bet.

Steve

dealt with a guy who made a robot to play online bj. His results were so far below theoretical for such a big sample size that a fair game is hardly possible. You have no way to know if they are cheating and nobody to appeal to if they are. It may be worth your while to join greenchip just to read some of these archived posts.

http://webhome.idirect.com/~blakjack/950.jpg

So far my testing hasn't shown any cheating. I'm using one online casino that several trusted colleagues have vouched for and the software the casino uses is made by a pretty reputable company. So far, the testing shows a pretty reasonable outcome. Of course, my testing is with the free game, no the money game. Maybe the money game will be different. That's what testing is for.

My experience has shown me that writing a program to play BJ is not the easiest thing in the world, perhaps the green chip poster has some subtle (or not so subtle) flaws in his program?

Believe me, testing this program has been a very humbling experience.

Steve

... YES! It's a worthwhile game, and a worthwhile project, though what possessed you to mention your 'bot'acious plan is beyond me. I don't believe the posters trashing the game have a lot of online gambling experience. I don't think they're taking into account the speed of online play, or the power of instant Wong-outs. But don't expect the opportunity to last forever. They may cheat, or they may START to cheat, or refuse to pay, or cancel your account, or ... once it becomes apparant you're a consistent winner.

ETF

His results were so far below theoretical for such a big sample size that a fair game is hardly possible. You have no way to know if they are cheating and nobody to appeal to if they are.

The second sentence seems to contradicts the first, if there was no way to know if he was being cheated he could not determine that a fair game was hardly possible.

You have many consumer organizations and regulatory bodies to appeal to as an online player, and they are every bit as useless as the Gaming Boards and Casino Control Commissions in Nevada, New Jersey and elsewhere.

<I thought about this. I think that cover is required for online play just like it is in the casino at certain bet sizes/win levels. I agree that if a player is greedy and hammers the same online casino over and over again, countermeasures will follow. But, methodically spreading the action over many online casinos so that you stay below the radar screen is a viable option I believe.

As far as my mentioning the "bot" plan in a forum goes, I'm sure I am not the first person to think of this. There isn't much an online casino could do about it anyway, they won't know if my bot is making play decsions or if I am. Interestingly, the president of the company that makes the blackjack software (he is also involved in the online casinos I play with) I'm playing against recommended the exact course of action that I am taking! That is why they keep the penetration at around 50%, they don't feel the player can get an advantage, so they aren't worried about it.

Regards,
Steve

that without having the robot to test for cheating you would have no way to know on your own.

Though the rules you specify may very well give the B.S. player a slight edge, the bigger worry is: can you actually *collect* your winnings, if any? That's a problem with too many of these online scam casinos.

Care to give us the name and link address to this site?

But, methodically spreading the action over many online casinos so that you stay below the radar screen is a viable option I believe.

That helps, but if you're using this program on the same software repeatedly, it all goes through the same server, and I'd assume they'll collate.

Are you sure about the early surrender v A and T? Early surrender means you still get to keep half your bet AFTER dealer finds he had blackjack. Without this, you have a very marginal situation. Also, are you sure you're getting a shuffle when going to the lobby? I'm asking this, because I'm aware of software that had these features, but changed over a year ago. Maybe you've stumbled onto a casino that hasn't upgraded?

ETF

...assuming the casino is who I think it is, it is regulated in the Dutch Antilles, which has one of a very few gaming boards with real teeth. By that I mean a much stronger effective form of regulation than is practiced anywhere in the US.

That aside, cheating switches are not in common use by internet casinos in general. There is a great deal of evidence to suggest they do not cheat and very little to suggest that they do. It is that simple.