Is it worth it?

I have been following (and posting) this board for about 4 years now. I am a fairly laid-back type person and I don't jump in to every little discussion that comes along. Some of you may recognize me from way back and some may not-- I don't care either way.

Having said that:

Is it all worth the effort??

I mean, the counting, the hiding (cover), the running from one casino to the next... does any of this matter anymore? The 'heat' has gotten so intense that I am not sure an 'average' card counter can make it these days. Please allow me to explain. I have been counting for around 6 years using Hi Opt I with a side count of aces. I mainly only go for double-deck (pitch) games with fair rules. I track all my play (like a good boy should) and I have some casino money in my pocket to show for several years of hard work.

BUT

is it ENOUGH casino money??

I am in the weird position of being an almost-green bettor and a red-chip small fry. My bank roll permits me about a $10 unit with an acceptable ROR. Acceptable being under 10%. I have made money. My question is: have I made ENOUGH money (and do I have the POTENTIAL to make enough money) to justify all the trouble. The troube being learning to count, cover, jumping around to diff. casinos, etc.

So I am posing the question to all of you old-timers........

is it worth it?? Think about it for awhile and then gimme youir opinions, thanks.

NICK SIMMS

I have played professionally 10 years so far. Counting is not really hard. Your money now sit at bank making 2% a year... you get 2% per minute with true 5! How can this be hard or not worthwhile? Most counters problem are they don't take counting serious enough to really "invest". You buy stocks with $100,000 getting 5% a year then use $5,000 BR win $5,000 from BJ, you complain of the hard work of card counting... I am satusfied with card counting. I admit that I am not "working" at the same place as you. I play mostly foreign (vs. USA) countries where good BJ still plenty. You can't as you have a job and can't travel... really? I will say this: if you have 2 weeks, it is much much better spending 3 days travelling to good BJ country than spend whole on lousy AC, or MS, or LV.

Where is the foreign, quality bj you speak of? Australia, Africa, the Artic? Tell me, please! Where do I go? I am a egocentric American who knows nothing of the outside world!

After 6 years of gambling I would think you are the only one who can answer your questions,nobody else.

If you can gain a consistent 2% edge at blackjack,you're a genious with a huge bank.

Yes, I have read "World's Greatest..." and it is sorta like my "bible". I have read many other good BJ books, but THAT one goes with me on trips (if you know what I mean).

And, NO-- I did not lose on my latest trip (vegas), however, I did experience a higher proportion of bad rules and lousy games than ever before. When you couple that with every increasing casino scrutiny (and technology), it caused me to ask myself "Is it worth it?"

Thanks for all the replys.

NICK

Is it worth it? For the money? No, not at the level you and I are playing at, I don't think. Yeah, I have a little bankroll. Probably good enough to play red to green, as you say. But I don't bet much green because the bankroll might not last too long. But then, I'm not playing for the money. I'm playing because it's fun. Because it's a challenge. Like playing golf or racing lawnmowers or playing bridge. It's fun to win a little money from time to time. It's a learning experience to lose. I like knowing why I lose; I like knowing it's because of sd and not because the dealer is crosseyed, or because another player hit when he should have doubled. I like the simplicity of the game. I like the complexity of the game. Is it worth it? Yeah, at this level it's an intriguing hobby where I can win a few bucks and lose no more than I want to afford to lose. But is it worth the money? Hell no.

2% at tc 5..., not consistently, read it right.

I took risk playing at casinos with ES2 (ESA and ES10) at countries such as Russia and ... I did not say safe, right? I took risk, made money, what is wrong with me or you?

Russia: ES2 (ESA ans ES10)
Perth, Australia: 1.3% on chips rolling playing BJ with buy-in of A$75k
Melboune, Australia: 0.5% on action with buying of A410k
Equador: ES2
Colombia: ES2
etc., etc.

in the madness of the monetary chase,we often find ourselves imersed in dramatic distortions of the real reasons we take part,,
is it worth it?,
let us remember,so many of our neighbors and friends,spend ungodly hours in factories,sweatshops, nd in hopeless jobs led by demanding bosses,always with each paycheck another week behind the bill collectors.Most always living under the threat of morgage brokers and repo men,
is it worth it?,
blackjack pros are a lucky few my friend,we read books,we believe,we absorb and we learn.
we frequent the most elablorate and exsquisite casinos in the world,we often dine many nights for free on the finest foods and drinks known.
Our days and nights are filled with excitement and leisure that many many people only dream of.
Best yet,in the most comfortable surroundings known,we simply sit and play a game.
We play the game the best we can,and most always,
we get paid in real,cold hard cash.
we are the "enemy" to some, we are the envy of many.
Indeed my friend,it is truley worth it.

I think you said you were playing double deck games, with a $10 unit. My guess is you spread 10-100 or something like that. I don�t think it is �worth it� at this level.

Now �worth it� is a somewhat subjective term. But the income earned is negligible, relative to the time required. Your hourly rate is probably low, partly because the tables you play in are so crowded. And then when you add in all the non-table time (�scouting, practicing, record-keeping, etc�) you are probably working for minimum wage. But, you have to risk capital that could be invested someplace else. For somebody smart enough to card-counter, a minimum wage pay probably isn�t worth it.

I don�t know if get any comps at this level, but that makes a big difference. Otherwise you have to pay a large part of your own expenses. If your casinos give you meals at your level, hen that is one consideration.

If you derive enjoyment form the game, then that is something to consider. Most people spend money on their hobby, and yours is probably break-even. Which isn�t bad.

But you also complained about the �heat� in the game. I am a little surprised that you are getting much heat at that level, although I do realize that you are playing DD which does make a difference. But one of the few advantage of red chip play is that you don�t have to put with that much harassment.

This heat probably detracts from the enjoyment of the game, and wonder if it can be considered �enjoyable anymore�.

I will tell you that if I was play for red-chips, and I was drawing the same kind of heat that my current play draws, I would quit the game. I am willing to tolerate a certain amount of abuse to make $100 an hour, plus comps. I wouldn�t do it for $10, with no comps/

Congrats, and thanks math prof. You have put exactly what I am feeling/going thru into words.

Yes-- I love to play blackjack and I especially love playing when I KNOW I have the advantage. However, since I don't have a large enough bankroll to support a $100/hr EV, I sometimes feel like I am just "spinning my wheels". This is never more true than when I am experiencing the down swing of the standard deviation.

I think I just needed to hear it from somebody else (as a solo counter I don't get much input from other sources in person). I won't quit playing; I love the game too much for that.

Thanks to all for the confidence booster!

NICK

I dont think suggesting anything less than 100 bucks an hour is a waste of time. I average far less and NEVER(for 1 second) feel I'm wasting time. The negative swings can be difficult to accept and you may feel it's all a waste of time,but time is actually our friend not our enemy. Since you do not intend on quiting,there are only 2 choices...Bet with the count or Play basic strategy. Of course it's easy to see which of the two choices is truly a waste of time.

Good Luck.