Idiotic plays

I've recently come across some really stupid plays and I started to wonder how much these cost to the player.
Few people tend to, without exception, stand on soft hands above 13, fail to split aces, split 10s and double on 12 and 13.
Does someone know how bad these plays actually are?
I know splitting tens vs. 6 is justified on high counts, but the split happens more frequently vs. dealer 10, so seriously doubt these people are counting or using camouflage etc.

if they use up enough cards to force a shuffle. Otherwise, get used to it.

One of the most idiotic plays is standing instead of splitting 8/8 versus 7 (DAS assumed).This is actually a very common error. Here the player goes from a positive expectation of 32% to a negative one of 47%. That means that he gives away 32+47 = 79% of his bet.A horrendous toll!

Francis Salmon

The example on splitting 8/8 is often in my opinion the result of overbetting by the player.
Guy is going bad and steaming. Raises his bet way up and then gets a split like your example and fails to make the proper play even though he may actually know what it is because he is above his financial comfort level.
It is possible, but not likely, that the amount you initially bet could be multiplied by 8 with splits and doubles, so I take the attitude that if you would be unwilling to make these proper bets at that level, the level is too high for you and you bet less.
Seen this very often from decent basic strategy players who when going well would definately do the right thing but when overbetting because they are going poorly, they back off and cost themselves more.

Actually, I thought we were talking about ploppies. And a pure BS-player should anyway be flatbetting minimum "pour faire durer le plaisir". So overbetting shouldn't come into consideration in his case.And a card counter who doesn't try everything to split the eights even if he is close to running out of money doesn't deserve this title at all.

Francis Salmon

I've seen many people stand on soft hands (like A-2,3,4,5) where they might have the excuse (although it's inexcusable) that they thought the Ace "had to be" 11, but recently had the anchor stand on hard 8 vs. dealer's 2 because he didn't want to take the dealer's bust card. I don't know what the sequence of cards was and what would have happened if he had hit his hand, but the dealer ended up with 21.
I'm sure we've all seen incredibly stupid things done at the table, but it still amazes me how little people value their money.

...They have have choice you know. Their A,3 becomes a 14, which they stand on against the dealer's face card because they have a "feeling" the dealer will draw a 5 and then bust with another 10.

A casino license is a license to steal without a doubt.

Cobbson

On the reverse, on a cruise ship recently a player asked to hit Ace-8 and the dealer didn't say a thing. It borders on the criminal what casinos do their patrons. But on the other hand, people do have to take responsibility for their own actions and money.

It's a given that they're going to bust out. Horrendous play actually knocks a guy out pretty quickly. Can't beat the math very long.

Does a "pro" tolerate such a player at his table? If it's a +EV shoe, I'll sit there thru a fire. But after that, I can't wait to bolt. I have thick-skin, but I don't like being un-nerved by awful player errors.

You should never allow the play of others affect you. Unless it's a bridge game.

I have become more tolerant of "bad" players over the years but sometimes I just have to leave after several "bad" plays that cost me a lot of money. I used to leave after one bad play cost me a lot of money. Luckily, Mr. 8 left after the next hand as everyone else was giving him a really hard time. I didn't say a word. Gorgon is right that we shouldn't let other people's play affect us, but card counters are people too and sometimes you just have to move on (unless the count is really high).

I have seen so many ploppies make correct plays till they have big bets out and then they do something else. That is what I was talking about here.

It is just another little part in what makes them bad players.

Since the margin for the bank is very small in Blackjack, this game wouldn't exist if there wasn't a majority of bad players.
It's also important to understand that they don't alter your expectation as long as you don't bet on their hand.

Francis Salmon

It's a comfortable feeling to be playing Heads-up (or w/ 1 other player) and knowing that nobody is going to sneak into your shoe.

If you're playing NO Mid-Shoe, you're playing all hands off the top and have nobody to help you absorb cards that have you at a disadvantage 80% of the time.
If it's an open table, you can welcome other players in, and when the count gets right, you can often spook them off by switching back and forth from one hand to two and back to one -- or with other voodoo provoking maneuvers in your camo hand arsenal.

Do you have expectations for the other plays I described in the initial message?

I once saw a player split 6's against a dealers' King-I almost cried.

That beats standing on hard 8, and I think everything else I've seen.

I only did it because the pit bull was watching. I should have doubled down instead. I thought staying would be too obvious but I did see that move at least once in my career.

the shoe when the hand is peaking at +EV. Furthermore, they'll bet TWO hands at table minimum. And then they'll draw incorrectly, sucking out the 10 I needed for my double down.

In a brutal downturn right now. Can't win.